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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 10:23:07 GMT
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 10:25:31 GMT
Andrew Neil goes on ...
UK industry has been paying prices for electricity 60 to 80 per cent higher than French or German industry: £113 per megawatt hour in the UK versus £61 in France and Germany.
In the first two decades of this century, British electricity prices doubled, even when the price of the natural gas generating much of it was falling (before Russia's invasion of Ukraine) because of the extra cost of renewables essential to the Net Zero strategy.
So it's hardly surprising our industry has struggled to compete, especially when you realise that industrial energy prices in India and China are just one third of even Europe's lower energy prices.
Port Talbot is merely the latest victim of Net Zero. Other steelworks have already fallen by the wayside. Our last aluminium smelter at Lochaber in Scotland is only kept afloat by vast taxpayer subsidies. Scotland's last oil refinery, at Grangemouth, was recently scheduled for closure.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 20, 2024 10:37:41 GMT
Well interestingly it's put Starmer/Labour in catch-22.
They are the party of net zero, with their ULEZ zones 20 mph zones, now how is flip flop going to get out of this one, political point score with job losses or praise the government for its spearheading net zero policies.
While no one wants any one to lose their jobs, especially these numbers, but the likes of JSO and the eco warriors, Labour/Lib-dems/greens they can't have it all ways, it's all a big con as far as I'm concerned, we are now paying more stealth taxes than taxes.
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 11:03:37 GMT
Well interestingly it's put Starmer/Labour in catch-22. They are the party of net zero, with their ULEZ zones 20 mph zones, now how is flip flop going to get out of this one, political point score with job losses or praise the government for its spearheading net zero policies. While no one wants any one to lose their jobs, especially these numbers, but the likes of JSO and the eco warriors, Labour/Lib-dems/greens they can't have it all ways, it's all a big con as far as I'm concerned, we are not paying more stealth taxes than taxes. not just labour and the greens , or liberals , but the snp as well . all these net zero policies , and the climate scam in general were all well and good while it was merely the Wishlist of green tree huggers and space cadets spouting about saving whales and rainforests. Fast forward to recent events , as the diktats of gore and Kerry in yank land to the political parties of the western worlds nations to start weaning off oil and gas , and go green get implemented by the useful idiots in parties like the tories snp and labour among many others , and we are know starting to see how its making us all colder and poorer. The founding fathers of labour must be turning in their graves listening to the guff climate generals like ed milliband come out with . |
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2024 11:19:24 GMT
It hasn't been closed down yet, the terms of closure and length of closure (estimated to be to 2027) will depend on the final decision by Tata and whatever input the government decides to make. Tata states they have made financial losses for the last 10 years, so they can hardly be blamed for up grading production in an aim to make it a financial success for the future. It appears that it is not the case that the closure is based on green issues alone. Nevertheless closure, without consideration and help for the workforce could be catastrophic for the whole community. Apparently the are 40 other such conversion taking place in Europe. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2024 11:20:50 GMT
Well interestingly it's put Starmer/Labour in catch-22. They are the party of net zero, with their ULEZ zones 20 mph zones, now how is flip flop going to get out of this one, political point score with job losses or praise the government for its spearheading net zero policies. While no one wants any one to lose their jobs, especially these numbers, but the likes of JSO and the eco warriors, Labour/Lib-dems/greens they can't have it all ways, it's all a big con as far as I'm concerned, we are now paying more stealth taxes than taxes. The Tories introduced 'net zero'. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 11:25:20 GMT
Apparently the are 40 other such conversion taking place in Europe. so ive read. and the common denominator is the net zero madness. Demand for steel is rising worldwide , and predicted to rise still further , yet Europe is shutting down steel production at the behest of net zero madness.? Neil makes that very point in his article , and also points out the stupidity of Europes net zero de industrialisation is going to shift even more power to places like china , while doing nothing to curb emmissions worldwide... The irony is that decimating our heavy industry does not, in fact, reduce global CO2 emissions. It is reckoned that converting Port Talbot to greener electric arc production will cut our CO2 emissions by 1.5 per cent.
China’s CO2 emissions rose 13 per cent in the past decade, swamping any cuts we have made
But that will be swamped by the rise in CO2 emissions elsewhere as we import more steel from countries, especially China, which still generate electricity with dirty coal.
China's CO2 emissions rose 13 per cent in the past decade, swamping any cuts we have made under Net Zero. It now accounts for over 50 per cent of the world's coal-fired electricity generation |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 11:25:51 GMT
Well interestingly it's put Starmer/Labour in catch-22. They are the party of net zero, with their ULEZ zones 20 mph zones, now how is flip flop going to get out of this one, political point score with job losses or praise the government for its spearheading net zero policies. While no one wants any one to lose their jobs, especially these numbers, but the likes of JSO and the eco warriors, Labour/Lib-dems/greens they can't have it all ways, it's all a big con as far as I'm concerned, we are now paying more stealth taxes than taxes. The Tories introduced 'net zero'. does labour whole heartedly support it? yes or no? |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 11:30:43 GMT
Self-inflicted deindustrialisation is not just a British problem. It is European-wide. Even Germany, the continent's mightiest industrial powerhouse, is suffering from it, thanks to the Net Zero obsessions of its own political elite.
Flagship German industrial names, such as chemical giant BASF, have started moving production to the U.S., where energy costs are much lower. This week, the country's last producer of solar panel parts announced it was also switching production to America.
European trade unions have started to panic. Industrial production in the European Union fell 6 per cent last year.
'Factories are closing and jobs are being cut in the very sectors that lifted Europe to where it is today,' says the European Trade Union Confederation, 'especially in energy-intensive sectors such as the aluminium, fertiliser, and chemicals industries.'
The lack of investment we are seeing today is already having dramatic implications for working communities.'
The populist Right will make major gains
Another pan-European trade union group talks openly about Europe's 'industrial decline and the threat of deindustrialisation'.
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 11:33:39 GMT
his article finishes with these wise words predicting the backlash to the trendy middle class and political elite who support net zero...
The price that ordinary families and communities are paying for Net Zero is a major factor behind the populist resurgence in continental Europe, from France to Germany to Italy.
It will explain why the populist Right will make major gains in this June's elections to the European Parliament and in national elections thereafter, as it already has in previously moderate political systems such as Holland and Sweden.
In Britain, the populist backlash will be delayed.
But it is coming nevertheless. British voters are currently more concerned about sweeping away the Tories than protesting about Net Zero.
But if, as looks likely, that leads to a Labour government even more zealous in its pursuit of Net Zero than the current Tory Government, then backlash there will be.
Labour will meet a wall of resistance and the Tories in opposition will forget their Net Zero sins and rush to capitalise on it.
By the time Keir Starmer is well-ensconced in No 10, there will be plenty of examples of European resistance to encourage British insurgents opposed to Labour's radical green orthodoxy.
The rest of this decade will be proof positive that, if you really want to give the populist Right a leg-up, just carry on with the helter-skelter race to Net Zero.
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 20, 2024 11:40:26 GMT
Apparently the are 40 other such conversion taking place in Europe. so ive read. and the common denominator is the net zero madness. Demand for steel is rising worldwide , and predicted to rise still further , yet Europe is shutting down steel production at the behest of net zero madness.? Neil makes that very point in his article , and also points out the stupidity of Europes net zero de industrialisation is going to shift even more power to places like china , while doing nothing to curb emmissions worldwide... The irony is that decimating our heavy industry does not, in fact, reduce global CO2 emissions. It is reckoned that converting Port Talbot to greener electric arc production will cut our CO2 emissions by 1.5 per cent.
There is an argument it wont even do that - the steel will continue to be needed but instead it will be produced at factories in China and India that are powered by energy that is even dirtier and thus has higher emissions. I will then be transported to the UK by ships powered by diesel with even more emissions. So far from saving the planet its making things worse. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 11:44:55 GMT
so ive read. and the common denominator is the net zero madness. Demand for steel is rising worldwide , and predicted to rise still further , yet Europe is shutting down steel production at the behest of net zero madness.? Neil makes that very point in his article , and also points out the stupidity of Europes net zero de industrialisation is going to shift even more power to places like china , while doing nothing to curb emmissions worldwide... The irony is that decimating our heavy industry does not, in fact, reduce global CO2 emissions. It is reckoned that converting Port Talbot to greener electric arc production will cut our CO2 emissions by 1.5 per cent.
There is an argument it wont even do that - the steel will continue to be needed but instead it will be produced at factories in China and India that are powered by energy that is even dirtier and thus has higher emissions. I will then be transported to the UK by ships powered by diesel with even more emissions. So far from saving the planet its making things worse. fully agree. Fitch are forecasting demand for steel in 2024 will grow , yet we in Europe appear to be cutting off our production at the altar of insanity. madness. WTF is going on ?
Fitch forecasts an increase in demand for steel in most regions in 2024
gmk.center/en/news/fitch-forecasts-an-increase-in-demand-for-steel-in-most-regions-in-2024/ |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 20, 2024 11:45:46 GMT
so ive read. and the common denominator is the net zero madness. Demand for steel is rising worldwide , and predicted to rise still further , yet Europe is shutting down steel production at the behest of net zero madness.? Neil makes that very point in his article , and also points out the stupidity of Europes net zero de industrialisation is going to shift even more power to places like china , while doing nothing to curb emmissions worldwide... The irony is that decimating our heavy industry does not, in fact, reduce global CO2 emissions. It is reckoned that converting Port Talbot to greener electric arc production will cut our CO2 emissions by 1.5 per cent.
There is an argument it wont even do that - the steel will continue to be needed but instead it will be produced at factories in China and India that are powered by energy that is even dirtier and thus has higher emissions. I will then be transported to the UK by ships powered by diesel with even more emissions. So far from saving the planet its making things worse. So not only will we be making the alleged problem worse, we'll impoverish ourselves to do it.
Utter madness.
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2024 12:10:06 GMT
The Tories introduced 'net zero'. does labour whole heartedly support it? yes or no? Either way my post destroyed the dishonest claims being made. Net Zero is a LAW passed by the Conservative party. Labour believe that serious investment is needed in order to increase the production of green energy, to make the UK a leading producer of green energy (making it cheaper) and to create more jobs in the process. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 12:14:08 GMT
does labour whole heartedly support it? yes or no? Either way my post destroyed the dishonest claims being made. Net Zero is a LAW passed by the Conservative party. Labour believe that serious investment is needed in order to increase the production of green energy, to make the UK a leading producer of green energy (making it cheaper) and to create more jobs in the process. Do you ever read what is being written before you post? In the O/P , if you care to read the mail link to the article , Andrew Neil specifically makes clear the tories are introducing and supporting net zero policies , and the hypocrisy of labour trying to jump on the anti tory bandwagon when they are even bigger supporters of net zero than the tories. in Wales net zero is a law passed on devolved issues by the labour government. So what point are you trying to make once more? |
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