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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2024 12:21:09 GMT
Apparently the are 40 other such conversion taking place in Europe. so ive read. and the common denominator is the net zero madness. Demand for steel is rising worldwide , and predicted to rise still further , yet Europe is shutting down steel production at the behest of net zero madness.? Neil makes that very point in his article , and also points out the stupidity of Europes net zero de industrialisation is going to shift even more power to places like china , while doing nothing to curb emmissions worldwide... The irony is that decimating our heavy industry does not, in fact, reduce global CO2 emissions. It is reckoned that converting Port Talbot to greener electric arc production will cut our CO2 emissions by 1.5 per cent.
China’s CO2 emissions rose 13 per cent in the past decade, swamping any cuts we have made
But that will be swamped by the rise in CO2 emissions elsewhere as we import more steel from countries, especially China, which still generate electricity with dirty coal.
China's CO2 emissions rose 13 per cent in the past decade, swamping any cuts we have made under Net Zero. It now accounts for over 50 per cent of the world's coal-fired electricity generationAre you claiming that all the steel industries in Europe have, unlike Tata, been an economic success over the last ten years? So that their changes are down to reducing pollution alone? IIRC China is producing more green energy than any other country, so they are making an effort. As for reducing pollution in the UK, that will help to clean up the atmosphere we breath, and that's a double positive. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2024 12:27:34 GMT
Either way my post destroyed the dishonest claims being made. Net Zero is a LAW passed by the Conservative party. Labour believe that serious investment is needed in order to increase the production of green energy, to make the UK a leading producer of green energy (making it cheaper) and to create more jobs in the process. Do you ever read what is being written before you post? In the O/P , if you care to read the mail link to the article , Andrew Neil specifically makes clear the tories are introducing and supporting net zero policies , and the hypocrisy of labour trying to jump on the anti tory bandwagon when they are even bigger supporters of net zero than the tories. in Wales net zero is a law passed on devolved issues by the labour government. So what point are you trying to make once more? The point is that 'Net Zero' is a law passed by a Conservative government, that means we are stuck with it unless it is once again modified to suit reality as has already been done at least once and can be done again, or it is deleted and is no longer the law. I gave you my answer to Labour's position on Net Zero in my previous post. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 12:38:13 GMT
Do you ever read what is being written before you post? In the O/P , if you care to read the mail link to the article , Andrew Neil specifically makes clear the tories are introducing and supporting net zero policies , and the hypocrisy of labour trying to jump on the anti tory bandwagon when they are even bigger supporters of net zero than the tories. in Wales net zero is a law passed on devolved issues by the labour government. So what point are you trying to make once more? The point is that 'Net Zero' is a law passed by a Conservative government, that means we are stuck with it unless it is once again modified to suit reality as has already been done at least once and can be done again, or it is deleted and is no longer the law. I gave you my answer to Labour's position on Net Zero in my previous post. Net zero policies are only passed in England by a tory government , and on those areas which are reserved uk wide. In Scotland and Wales , net zero has been implemented by both labour , and the snp on devolved matters. So please stop talking utter nonsense , get yourself out of the nineties bubble , and come into the 21 st century . Clearly the argument Andrew Neil lis making is this isn't a single party issue , for example you moaning about the tories. It's about a multi party issue , that is causing problems across the western world while china and others laugh at us. Labour are fully behind the green agenda , and arguably looking at the madness in Wales , will probably make net zero policies that are even more damaging than the snp and tories. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 20, 2024 13:13:26 GMT
This decision will leave the UK as the only G20 country that does not have the capacity to make virgin steel and will leave us totally reliant on China and India. In other words, this decision is strategic and economic incompetence. It's just another example of political elites winding down UK Plc in the name of net zero.
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2024 13:25:28 GMT
The point is that 'Net Zero' is a law passed by a Conservative government, that means we are stuck with it unless it is once again modified to suit reality as has already been done at least once and can be done again, or it is deleted and is no longer the law. I gave you my answer to Labour's position on Net Zero in my previous post. Net zero policies are only passed in England by a tory government , and on those areas which are reserved uk wide. In Scotland and Wales , net zero has been implemented by both labour , and the snp on devolved matters. So please stop talking utter nonsense , get yourself out of the nineties bubble , and come into the 21 st century . Clearly the argument Andrew Neil lis making is this isn't a single party issue , for example you moaning about the tories. It's about a multi party issue , that is causing problems across the western world while china and others laugh at us. Labour are fully behind the green agenda , and arguably looking at the madness in Wales , will probably make net zero policies that are even more damaging than the snp and tories. --"https://www.gov.uk/.../news/uk-becomes-first-major-economy-to-pass-net-zero-emissions-law 27 June 2019 Chris Skidmore signs legislation to commit the UK to a legally binding target of net zero emissions by 2050. The UK today became the first major economy to pass a net zero emissions-law. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 20, 2024 13:26:57 GMT
This decision will leave the UK as the only G20 country that does not have the capacity to make virgin steel and will leave us totally reliant on China and India. In other words, this decision is strategic and economic incompetence. It's just another example of political elites winding down UK Plc in the name of net zero. This is the place.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 20, 2024 13:32:03 GMT
This decision will leave the UK as the only G20 country that does not have the capacity to make virgin steel and will leave us totally reliant on China and India. In other words, this decision is strategic and economic incompetence. It's just another example of political elites winding down UK Plc in the name of net zero. This is the place.
Interesting it may have been, but I'm not entirely sure why you posted it... |
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2024 13:32:04 GMT
This decision will leave the UK as the only G20 country that does not have the capacity to make virgin steel and will leave us totally reliant on China and India. In other words, this decision is strategic and economic incompetence. It's just another example of political elites winding down UK Plc in the name of net zero. I what has Tata's profitability got to do with either the 'political elites' or net zero? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 20, 2024 13:36:54 GMT
This decision will leave the UK as the only G20 country that does not have the capacity to make virgin steel and will leave us totally reliant on China and India. In other words, this decision is strategic and economic incompetence. It's just another example of political elites winding down UK Plc in the name of net zero. I what has Tata's profitability got to do with either the 'political elites' or net zero? I think TATA are essentially holding the government to ransom. They know a loss of 3000 jobs will be disastrous in an election year which is why they are asking the government for £3 billion to keep the blast furnaces open. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 20, 2024 13:48:51 GMT
Interesting it may have been, but I'm not entirely sure why you posted it... So people know what they are talking about. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 20, 2024 14:01:32 GMT
So people know what they are talking about. Ahh I see. General interest rather than addressing the closure of the blast furnaces. Fairy nuff. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 20, 2024 14:29:09 GMT
So people know what they are talking about. Ahh I see. General interest rather than addressing the closure of the blast furnaces. Fairy nuff. The press don't know shit about steel making. The video shows you exactly what is being closed. It's the largest plant in Europe. Mind you, I do think the process was too labour-intensive. A lot of that is old technology. The new arc furnaces are said to be automated. It is important to keep up with automation in order to stay in business. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 20, 2024 14:36:09 GMT
Ahh I see. General interest rather than addressing the closure of the blast furnaces. Fairy nuff. The press don't know shit about steel making. The video shows you exactly what is being closed. It's the largest plant in Europe. Mind you, I do think the process was too labour-intensive. A lot of that is old technology. The new arc furnaces are said to be automated. It is important to keep up with automation in order to stay in business. New electric arc furnaces cant produce virgin steel, which is why we will be reliant on China and India who use coke furnaces because they're not interested in destroying their economy with net zero policies. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 20, 2024 14:40:18 GMT
Net zero policies are only passed in England by a tory government , and on those areas which are reserved uk wide. In Scotland and Wales , net zero has been implemented by both labour , and the snp on devolved matters. So please stop talking utter nonsense , get yourself out of the nineties bubble , and come into the 21 st century . Clearly the argument Andrew Neil lis making is this isn't a single party issue , for example you moaning about the tories. It's about a multi party issue , that is causing problems across the western world while china and others laugh at us. Labour are fully behind the green agenda , and arguably looking at the madness in Wales , will probably make net zero policies that are even more damaging than the snp and tories. --"https://www.gov.uk/.../news/uk-becomes-first-major-economy-to-pass-net-zero-emissions-law 27 June 2019 Chris Skidmore signs legislation to commit the UK to a legally binding target of net zero emissions by 2050. The UK today became the first major economy to pass a net zero emissions-law. ...and your point is what , and how does it relate to what im saying? Will starmer reverse the commitment ? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 20, 2024 15:20:24 GMT
The press don't know shit about steel making. The video shows you exactly what is being closed. It's the largest plant in Europe. Mind you, I do think the process was too labour-intensive. A lot of that is old technology. The new arc furnaces are said to be automated. It is important to keep up with automation in order to stay in business. New electric arc furnaces cant produce virgin steel, which is why we will be reliant on China and India who use coke furnaces because they're not interested in destroying their economy with net zero policies. We have another problem as well. This is where the iron ore comes from.
In China their electricity is 385% cheaper than our own.
I mean in the old days we were far more set up because the steel would be sent down to Birmingham to make cars. The fuel for the furnaces would be local as well. The thing is China will want to have the whole production process local to them like we once did and we will buy the steel in the form of new EV cars. Global economics is a lot about how heavy something is, how far it has to be transported and what its value is.
As for the UK, well here is a map. I think much of our raw materials got depleted during our industrial times. We're burnt out, where China has only been developed for a short time.
It's the same with our gas supplies in the North Sea.
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