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Post by Bentley on Nov 15, 2023 23:00:40 GMT
Telling the truth isn’t inhumane .  I don’t know why a stupid emoticon has appeared — I was just querying WTF your response meant…. Lol |
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Post by walterpaisley on Nov 16, 2023 7:46:48 GMT
..our resident Marxist activists.. I'm a Marxist now?! Lummee. You clearly never saw me in holding forth in the pub (the Lenin Arms, obviously. They do a mean White Russian). |
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Post by Orac on Nov 16, 2023 9:40:10 GMT
Resident Marxist to boot.
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Post by walterpaisley on Nov 16, 2023 9:45:28 GMT
Resident Marxist to boot. Seeing as how a couple of central tenets of Marxism are "the means of production should be in the hands of the proletariat", and the ultimate goal of state communism, I suspect I'm about as far from "Marxism" as it gets. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 16, 2023 9:53:28 GMT
Resident Marxist to boot. Seeing as how a couple of central tenets of Marxism are "the means of production should be in the hands of the proletariat", and the ultimate goal of state communism, I suspect I'm about as far from "Marxism" as it gets. Unconscious Marxism |
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Post by walterpaisley on Nov 16, 2023 10:21:00 GMT
I guess that's something like being an "unconscious t**t", then. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 16, 2023 12:24:29 GMT
"Tory in name only" Yes indeed well put. Perhaps we do need five years of Labour government to show people just how much we need a proper centre right Conservative party. But I do worry about the damage five years of a pro EU, pro immigrant, pro net-zero Labour government will have. Getting back to the OP, if the required number of letters go in, could we see another PM before the next election? It sounds ridiculous but it's certainly not impossible. Personally I think Sunak is toast and he'll be gone sooner rather than later. Current estimate of max of two dozen, so not approaching the required number. If the Tories have learned anything from the last two years it should be that they don't need another change in PM... I disagree. If it's a given the Tories are going to lose the next election, and apparently it is, what on earth have they got to lose by getting rid of Sunak? The worst possible outcome is they lose the next election which is where they are now. Replacing Sunak may not improve things but it certainly wont make things worse. Having a proper centre right Tory in number 10 just might improve Tory election prospects. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 16, 2023 12:27:57 GMT
I agree that it's difficult for the Tories to win next year, but honestly who would you replace Sunak with? I'd also bear in mind that the Tory membership voted for Liz Truss and that didn't last long, so I'm not sure they are in touch with the general public.
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 16, 2023 12:29:58 GMT
"Tory in name only" Yes indeed well put. Perhaps we do need five years of Labour government to show people just how much we need a proper centre right Conservative party. But I do worry about the damage five years of a pro EU, pro immigrant, pro net-zero Labour government will have.As opposed to the current pro EU, pro immigrant, pro net-zero government we have now?. If you think this government are pro EU, pro immigrant and pro net-zero, just wait until Starmer is in number 10. Or god forbid, a LibLab coalition. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 16, 2023 12:39:55 GMT
I agree that it's difficult for the Tories to win next year, but honestly who would you replace Sunak with? I'd also bear in mind that the Tory membership voted for Liz Truss and that didn't last long, so I'm not sure they are in touch with the general public. It's no secret that Liz Truss wasn't given a chance because Tory grandees wanted Sunak. If it were up to me I'd have Suella Braverman in number 10 like a shot, second choice would be Sir John Redwood. A no nonsense centre right Conservative prime minister in number 10 would absolutely revitalise Conservative voters and give them hope for the next election. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 16, 2023 12:43:42 GMT
Current estimate of max of two dozen, so not approaching the required number. If the Tories have learned anything from the last two years it should be that they don't need another change in PM... I disagree. If it's a given the Tories are going to lose the next election, and apparently it is, what on earth have they got to lose by getting rid of Sunak? The worst possible outcome is they lose the next election which is where they are now. Replacing Sunak may not improve things but it certainly wont make things worse. Having a proper centre right Tory in number 10 just might improve Tory election prospects. I think to a large extent they are thinking about the next election trying to shore up the "blue wall" to give them a base to rebuild from. Not a silly strategy given the utter shambles they have been in this parliament. Switching to a right wing leader now and a fourth PM in one parliament would surely leave them in an even worse place for 2029. Very unlikely to happen. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 16, 2023 12:52:36 GMT
I disagree. If it's a given the Tories are going to lose the next election, and apparently it is, what on earth have they got to lose by getting rid of Sunak? The worst possible outcome is they lose the next election which is where they are now. Replacing Sunak may not improve things but it certainly wont make things worse. Having a proper centre right Tory in number 10 just might improve Tory election prospects. I think to a large extent they are thinking about the next election trying to shore up the "blue wall" to give them a base to rebuild from. Not a silly strategy given the utter shambles they have been in this parliament. Switching to a right wing leader now and a fourth PM in one parliament would surely leave them in an even worse place for 2029. Very unlikely to happen. I disagree. Given the poling within their own potential supporters, trying to peel away a slither of lib dem support is basically suicide. The two parties have incompatible sets of voters - in other words, you could only gain one set at the expense of the other. Labour vs conservative is another matter because significant numbers of labour voters have conservative social values. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 16, 2023 13:01:39 GMT
I disagree. If it's a given the Tories are going to lose the next election, and apparently it is, what on earth have they got to lose by getting rid of Sunak? The worst possible outcome is they lose the next election which is where they are now. Replacing Sunak may not improve things but it certainly wont make things worse. Having a proper centre right Tory in number 10 just might improve Tory election prospects. I think to a large extent they are thinking about the next election trying to shore up the "blue wall" to give them a base to rebuild from. Not a silly strategy given the utter shambles they have been in this parliament. Switching to a right wing leader now and a fourth PM in one parliament would surely leave them in an even worse place for 2029. Very unlikely to happen. If the Tories lose the election, and as we all know it seems likely, then Sunak is history. He may resign immediately he may have to be be pushed but there is absolutely no doubt he will be replaced. Given the Tories are apparently going to lose anyway, why not cut to the chase and replace him now? I accept it's unlikely, although not impossible. This country has never needed a strong centre right Conservative prime minister more than it does now, it would absolutely revitalise Tory voters and activists in the run up to the election and that's exactly what we need. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 16, 2023 13:16:30 GMT
Yes of course Sunak is history if they lose the next election.
The question for the Tories is whether Sunak or a right wing leader gives them the best, albeit small, chance of winning the next election and perhaps more importantly now which one would give them the best base from which to maybe win the 2019 election. As ever you make the mistake that potential tory votes all think the same way you do. That feels unlikely.
By the way I bet that in the end you will still vote for a Sunak lead Tory party at the next election.
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 16, 2023 13:16:52 GMT
Sunak is the centre right leader.
Braverman is way over to the right.
Centrists don't undermine the police and try to bypass international law.
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