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Post by see2 on Nov 5, 2023 9:30:06 GMT
Roughly 170 years of aggression and conflict against the Jews by the Palestinian Arabs, finally arrived at the 7th November massacre of Jews by Hamas.
How should Israel have dealt with that massacre?
How might other countries have handled such history and such a massacre?
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 5, 2023 11:02:32 GMT
The Balfour declaration was perhaps the biggest mistske of the century, worse even than the setting up of a certain set of domino treaties.
A swift glance at the map of the region over the past three quarters of a century will quickly reveal the real problem
But don’t worry. Netanyahu will have solved the Palestinian problem by Christmas.
I’m rather surprised it took this long. The end game was obvious to any any who understand what the word ‘semite’ actually means. Tbe first step to eradication is removal of identity.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 5, 2023 15:28:34 GMT
Roughly 170 years of aggression and conflict against the Jews by the Palestinian Arabs, finally arrived at the 7th November massacre of Jews by Hamas. How should Israel have dealt with that massacre? How might other countries have handled such history and such a massacre? It seems everyone knows what the wrong answer is but have no idea what the right answer is, it seems to always come back to well what does Israel expect for behaving badly to the Palestinians.
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Post by Ripley on Nov 5, 2023 15:33:21 GMT
Roughly 170 years of aggression and conflict against the Jews by the Palestinian Arabs, finally arrived at the 7th November massacre of Jews by Hamas. How should Israel have dealt with that massacre? How might other countries have handled such history and such a massacre? Israel's retaliatory air strikes, the siege of Gaza, and the devastation of infrastructure rendering Gaza uninhabitable, is all too predictable, but it will fail to achieve peace for Israel or the Palestinians. The US's response to the 9/11 attack was excessive and unwise. That is why after October 7th, Biden advised the Israelis to learn from America's mistakes and not be driven by their rage. Of course, they didn't listen. www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/biden-warns-israel-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-the-us-did-after-911/ar-AA1irYvWAny solution that doesn't address the root cause of the problem will only perpetuate this conflict for generations to come.
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Post by see2 on Nov 5, 2023 15:43:47 GMT
Roughly 170 years of aggression and conflict against the Jews by the Palestinian Arabs, finally arrived at the 7th November massacre of Jews by Hamas. How should Israel have dealt with that massacre? How might other countries have handled such history and such a massacre? Israel's retaliatory air strikes, the siege of Gaza, and the devastation of infrastructure rendering Gaza uninhabitable, is all too predictable, but it will fail to achieve peace for Israel or the Palestinians. The US's response to the 9/11 attack was excessive and unwise. That is why after October 7th, Biden advised the Israelis to learn from America's mistakes and not be driven by their rage. Of course, they didn't listen. www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/biden-warns-israel-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-the-us-did-after-911/ar-AA1irYvWAny solution that doesn't address the root cause of the problem will only perpetuate this conflict for generations to come. How does one address the long standing hatred of the Jews held by the Arabs?
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Post by see2 on Nov 5, 2023 15:46:08 GMT
Roughly 170 years of aggression and conflict against the Jews by the Palestinian Arabs, finally arrived at the 7th November massacre of Jews by Hamas. How should Israel have dealt with that massacre? How might other countries have handled such history and such a massacre? It seems everyone knows what the wrong answer is but have no idea what the right answer is, it seems to always come back to well what does Israel expect for behaving badly to the Palestinians. Yes, typically blaming the Jews is the normal approach by many, not just the Arabs.
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Post by Ripley on Nov 5, 2023 15:50:35 GMT
Israel's retaliatory air strikes, the siege of Gaza, and the devastation of infrastructure rendering Gaza uninhabitable, is all too predictable, but it will fail to achieve peace for Israel or the Palestinians. The US's response to the 9/11 attack was excessive and unwise. That is why after October 7th, Biden advised the Israelis to learn from America's mistakes and not be driven by their rage. Of course, they didn't listen. www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/biden-warns-israel-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-the-us-did-after-911/ar-AA1irYvWAny solution that doesn't address the root cause of the problem will only perpetuate this conflict for generations to come. How does one address the long standing hatred of the Jews held by the Arabs? Is it hatred of Jews, or hatred of Zionism? There's a difference. It isn't hatred that has to be addressed, it's the cause of the hatred that exists on both sides. A solution has to begin with an admission that neither side is blameless here.
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Post by see2 on Nov 5, 2023 16:34:50 GMT
How does one address the long standing hatred of the Jews held by the Arabs? Is it hatred of Jews, or hatred of Zionism? There's a difference. It isn't hatred that has to be addressed, it's the cause of the hatred that exists on both sides. A solution has to begin with an admission that neither side is blameless here. "Zionism", definition. __ "a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation" in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann. The Arabs refused to accept the two state solution and threatened to destroy Israel (and actually did try to) if/when it emerged. There appears to be only one reason for that given the history of the situation once the Ottoman Muslims removed the shackles of the 'Dhimmi' from the Jews making them equal under the law to the Arabs. That is when Arab aggression began in seriousness. And their hatred of the Jews was revealed. IIRC, the Jews offered to cooperate with the Arabs, sharing their advanced knowledge on cultivating the land with them, after the acceptance of the two states. 50% of the land offered to the Jews was 'The Negev' desert. The Jews / Israelis "Made the desert flower" Much of it now cultivated and providing food. After the improvements to Palestine made by the British with some help from the Jews pre-1947, tens of thousands Non-Palestinian Arabs piled into Palestine without any objections from the Arabs. When tens of thousands Jews returned to the land of their fathers, the Arabs chose violence and aggression against them. That IMO highlights the Arab hatred of the Jews. As too does 7/10. Also bearing in mind that the Quran says that Palestine was given to the Jews. So why the objection to the Jews being given jurisdiction, NOT FULL CONTROL which the Israelis accepted, over part of Palestine?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2023 16:53:36 GMT
Roughly 170 years of aggression and conflict against the Jews by the Palestinian Arabs, finally arrived at the 7th November massacre of Jews by Hamas. How should Israel have dealt with that massacre? How might other countries have handled such history and such a massacre? I can't think of another country which has been attacked in a similar way. Perhaps 9/11 but it was not so up close and personal savagery. Israel should deal with this by finding and killing or arresting every person who was involved in the organisations which planned this fiendish act. They have every right to defend themselves from savages like these.
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Post by Ripley on Nov 5, 2023 17:01:33 GMT
Is it hatred of Jews, or hatred of Zionism? There's a difference. It isn't hatred that has to be addressed, it's the cause of the hatred that exists on both sides. A solution has to begin with an admission that neither side is blameless here. "Zionism", definition. __ "a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation" in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann. The Arabs refused to accept the two state solution and threatened to destroy Israel (and actually did try to) if/when it emerged. There appears to be only one reason for that given the history of the situation once the Ottoman Muslims removed the shackles of the 'Dhimmi' from the Jews making them equal under the law to the Arabs. That is when Arab aggression began in seriousness. And their hatred of the Jews was revealed. IIRC, the Jews offered to cooperate with the Arabs, sharing their advanced knowledge on cultivating the land with them, after the acceptance of the two states. 50% of the land offered to the Jews was 'The Negev' desert. The Jews / Israelis "Made the desert flower" Much of it now cultivated and providing food. After the improvements to Palestine made by the British with some help from the Jews pre-1947, tens of thousands Non-Palestinian Arabs piled into Palestine without any objections from the Arabs. When tens of thousands Jews returned to the land of their fathers, the Arabs chose violence and aggression against them. That IMO highlights the Arab hatred of the Jews. As too does 7/10. Also bearing in mind that the Quran says that Palestine was given to the Jews. So why the objection to the Jews being given jurisdiction, NOT FULL CONTROL which the Israelis accepted, over part of Palestine? The current brand of Zionism has for years involved conquering more and more Palestinian territory than was assigned and/or taken in war. A great many Jews don't subscribe to the continued practice of building illegal settlements, viewing it as exceeding the definition of Zionism. So, not all Jews are Zionists. Of course not all Jewish Israelis are 'settlers' and there are many non-Jews living in Israel. The majority of Jews do not live in Israel. There are far more living outside Israel than in it at any given time. This issue is not about the Jews as a people. It's above all about the policies of the Zionist Israeli government.
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Post by see2 on Nov 5, 2023 18:08:34 GMT
"Zionism", definition. __ "a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation" in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann. The Arabs refused to accept the two state solution and threatened to destroy Israel (and actually did try to) if/when it emerged. There appears to be only one reason for that given the history of the situation once the Ottoman Muslims removed the shackles of the 'Dhimmi' from the Jews making them equal under the law to the Arabs. That is when Arab aggression began in seriousness. And their hatred of the Jews was revealed. IIRC, the Jews offered to cooperate with the Arabs, sharing their advanced knowledge on cultivating the land with them, after the acceptance of the two states. 50% of the land offered to the Jews was 'The Negev' desert. The Jews / Israelis "Made the desert flower" Much of it now cultivated and providing food. After the improvements to Palestine made by the British with some help from the Jews pre-1947, tens of thousands Non-Palestinian Arabs piled into Palestine without any objections from the Arabs. When tens of thousands Jews returned to the land of their fathers, the Arabs chose violence and aggression against them. That IMO highlights the Arab hatred of the Jews. As too does 7/10. Also bearing in mind that the Quran says that Palestine was given to the Jews. So why the objection to the Jews being given jurisdiction, NOT FULL CONTROL which the Israelis accepted, over part of Palestine? The current brand of Zionism has for years involved conquering more and more Palestinian territory than was assigned and/or taken in war. A great many Jews don't subscribe to the continued practice of building illegal settlements, viewing it as exceeding the definition of Zionism. So, not all Jews are Zionists. Of course not all Jewish Israelis are 'settlers' and there are many non-Jews living in Israel. The majority of Jews do not live in Israel. There are far more living outside Israel than in it at any given time. This issue is not about the Jews as a people. It's above all about the policies of the Zionist Israeli government. I agree with your first paragraph but would point out that these problems began after the Arab war to destroy Israel. If by the "Zionist Israeli government" you mean the right wing government of Likud now in control, I would remind you of the fact the pre-Likud 1979 Israeli governments were moderate, left-wing and secular. IMO the extremist government that now controls Israel, is the product of the decades of aggression by the Arabs towards Israel.
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Post by Ripley on Nov 5, 2023 18:32:19 GMT
The current brand of Zionism has for years involved conquering more and more Palestinian territory than was assigned and/or taken in war. A great many Jews don't subscribe to the continued practice of building illegal settlements, viewing it as exceeding the definition of Zionism. So, not all Jews are Zionists. Of course not all Jewish Israelis are 'settlers' and there are many non-Jews living in Israel. The majority of Jews do not live in Israel. There are far more living outside Israel than in it at any given time. This issue is not about the Jews as a people. It's above all about the policies of the Zionist Israeli government. I agree with your first paragraph but would point out that these problems began after the Arab war to destroy Israel. If by the "Zionist Israeli government" you mean the right wing government of Likud now in control, I would remind you of the fact the pre-Likud 1979 Israeli governments were moderate, left-wing and secular. IMO the extremist government that now controls Israel, is the product of the decades of aggression by the Arabs towards Israel. And as we have seen, answering aggression with more aggression just isn't serving the interests of either party, is it?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2023 7:25:40 GMT
Israel's retaliatory air strikes, the siege of Gaza, and the devastation of infrastructure rendering Gaza uninhabitable, is all too predictable, but it will fail to achieve peace for Israel or the Palestinians. The US's response to the 9/11 attack was excessive and unwise. That is why after October 7th, Biden advised the Israelis to learn from America's mistakes and not be driven by their rage. Of course, they didn't listen. www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/biden-warns-israel-dont-make-the-same-mistakes-the-us-did-after-911/ar-AA1irYvWAny solution that doesn't address the root cause of the problem will only perpetuate this conflict for generations to come. How does one address the long standing hatred of the Jews held by the Arabs? Not making it worse by Jews stealing Arab lands for their illegal settlements might be a start.
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Post by Dogburger on Nov 6, 2023 7:50:56 GMT
Roughly 170 years of aggression and conflict against the Jews by the Palestinian Arabs, finally arrived at the 7th November massacre of Jews by Hamas. How should Israel have dealt with that massacre? How might other countries have handled such history and such a massacre? Roughly 170 years just doesn't cover it . These people have been going at it since the start of recorded History . The hatred is in their DNA Not sure what else they could do but what they are doing in retaliation though it won't solve anything in the long term .These people will be killing each other until the end of time and sadly are best left to it .
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 6, 2023 7:54:01 GMT
I agree with your first paragraph but would point out that these problems began after the Arab war to destroy Israel. If by the "Zionist Israeli government" you mean the right wing government of Likud now in control, I would remind you of the fact the pre-Likud 1979 Israeli governments were moderate, left-wing and secular. IMO the extremist government that now controls Israel, is the product of the decades of aggression by the Arabs towards Israel. And as we have seen, answering aggression with more aggression just isn't serving the interests of either party, is it? I'm not sure that that expecting Israel to sit back and do nothing whilst they are attacked is very practical.
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