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Post by dappy on Nov 6, 2023 18:52:47 GMT
Well as I say 7/10 didn't happen in isolation. It happened, at least partially, as a result of years of years of mismanagement of the palestinian issue by the Israeli government. A sensible, albeit politically very difficult admittedly, response on 8/10 would have been to look in the mirror, realise that military force and fences will never ensure peace for its citizens and immediately announce that it wanted to agree a negotiated settlement with Palestinians and seek to engage , through intermediaries if necessary, with all the key players in the conflict to begin to work out what that settlement could look like. The revenge war in Palestine is simply creating more hatred and more future violence against Israeli citizens. So you dance around the question with mealy-mouthed "answers" which do not want to look to a peaceful future at all. Israel have 1400 slaughtered like animals and you want them to negotiate with the perpetrators? I think only people from a certain religion might think in this perverse way. As I've posted before, I believe that pacifism is a one way street to destruction. Around 10000 Palestinians have already died. Perhaps 20000 will die before this is finished. Half of those are children. Do I want both Israelis and Palestinians should negotiate with people who have committed unspeakable acts of inhumanity against their side - yes. It’s the only way to avoid yet more future bloodshed on both sides. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 6, 2023 19:23:29 GMT
So you see no role for Israel in finding compromises to enable all human beings in that area to live in peace? The major problem is the Hatred that many Arabs have and have had for over 100 years for the Jews. A hatred based to a large extent on the fact that the Jews are not Muslims. I have no problem in anyone trying to solve the Arab Israeli problem, but what do you think anyone can do to get over that particular part of the problem? |
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Post by see2 on Nov 6, 2023 19:28:36 GMT
So you see no role for Israel in finding compromises to enable all human beings in that area to live in peace? Obviously, stopping the Jewish land thefts and giving back the lands they have stolen in the west bank will have to be a part of any peace. But see 2 thinks that is such obvious nonsense that he claims he wouldnt read any further. Yet he thinks he is the only unbiased one. The guy has no insight into himself at all, and does not realise what a biased clown he is. Because you are right. Israel too needs to undo wrongs as part of any peace. Anyone who is not biased towards either side can see that. Stop making up lies and insults about me. The Arabs have not allowed the Jews live in peace for over 100 years, you do post some ill-thought out rubbish. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 6, 2023 19:38:33 GMT
So you see no role for Israel in finding compromises to enable all human beings in that area to live in peace? The major problem is the Hatred that many Arabs have and have had for over 100 years for the Jews. A hatred based to a large extent on the fact that the Jews are not Muslims. I have no problem in anyone trying to solve the Arab Israeli problem, but what do you think anyone can do to get over that particular part of the problem? If the Jewish state really wants peace , it will need to form a little objective balanced view of the history and mistakes in either side that have got us to where we are than you display in your post. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 6, 2023 20:13:10 GMT
Well as I say 7/10 didn't happen in isolation. It happened, at least partially, as a result of years of years of mismanagement of the palestinian issue by the Israeli government. A sensible, albeit politically very difficult admittedly, response on 8/10 would have been to look in the mirror, realise that military force and fences will never ensure peace for its citizens and immediately announce that it wanted to agree a negotiated settlement with Palestinians and seek to engage , through intermediaries if necessary, with all the key players in the conflict to begin to work out what that settlement could look like. The revenge war in Palestine is simply creating more hatred and more future violence against Israeli citizens. So basically no response other than seeking to negotiate with people who have just murdered hundreds of your citizens and have taken another few hundred hostage. I would think politically it would be a death sentence for whomsoever implemented it. On another note do you realistically think that if Israel did that then HAMAS would not be shouting victory and not planning one more outrage to further their cause. One has to be realistic not just in one's own position but the existing and prospective positions of one's enemies. Israel was in a no win situation and one has to recall that HAMAS rely on Palestinian deaths to keep the whole issue live. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2023 20:14:07 GMT
My belief is that to make themselves safe from Hamas, they will have to take over administration of Gaza.
This will, of course, be seen as stealing land.
Perhaps they will be able to have Palestinians run the enclave under supervision,. But not Hamas.
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Nov 6, 2023 20:15:32 GMT
Rather than attack Gaza City Israel should have occupied Southern Gaza and co-operated with the UN in providing humanitarian support for the people there and for refugees from Gaza City.
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Post by dappy on Nov 6, 2023 21:47:08 GMT
Well as I say 7/10 didn't happen in isolation. It happened, at least partially, as a result of years of years of mismanagement of the palestinian issue by the Israeli government. A sensible, albeit politically very difficult admittedly, response on 8/10 would have been to look in the mirror, realise that military force and fences will never ensure peace for its citizens and immediately announce that it wanted to agree a negotiated settlement with Palestinians and seek to engage , through intermediaries if necessary, with all the key players in the conflict to begin to work out what that settlement could look like. The revenge war in Palestine is simply creating more hatred and more future violence against Israeli citizens. So basically no response other than seeking to negotiate with people who have just murdered hundreds of your citizens and have taken another few hundred hostage. I would think politically it would be a death sentence for whomsoever implemented it. On another note do you realistically think that if Israel did that then HAMAS would not be shouting victory and not planning one more outrage to further their cause. One has to be realistic not just in one's own position but the existing and prospective positions of one's enemies. Israel was in a no win situation and one has to recall that HAMAS rely on Palestinian deaths to keep the whole issue live. A competent Israeli government over many years wouldn’t have got themselves this position. But yes the least bad option on 8/10 would be to recognise that military solutions simply cause more hatred and more death on both sides and instead sought peaceful long term solution to end this. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 6, 2023 22:06:42 GMT
There are a lot of calls for 'compromise' - but for some reason they all expect Israel alone to compromise..... No one is suggesting that only Israel has to compromise Well what compromise are you expecting Hamas to make? |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 6, 2023 22:08:22 GMT
Israel have set their condition for a ceasefire - the release of all Hostages, however Hamas has rejected this. Israel will agree to a ceasefire if all the hostages are released? They know Hamas can't deliver all the hostages because Israeli airstrikes have killed about 60 of them so far. I suppose their lives were judged less valuable than the goal of annihilating Hamas. It's the fault of the Israelis that Hamas hostages died? - next you will be telling us that it's Israels fault that the hostages were taken in the first place. Is there anything that is not Israels fault? |
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Post by dappy on Nov 6, 2023 22:16:55 GMT
No one is suggesting that only Israel has to compromise Well what compromise are you expecting Hamas to make? That of course is for Israel and other interested parties to work out. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 6, 2023 22:28:43 GMT
Well what compromise are you expecting Hamas to make? That of course is for Israel and other interested parties to work out. Well surely they can only go on what Hamas say - not on what armchair warriors in the West would hope that they say? |
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Post by Ripley on Nov 6, 2023 23:24:42 GMT
Israel will agree to a ceasefire if all the hostages are released? They know Hamas can't deliver all the hostages because Israeli airstrikes have killed about 60 of them so far. I suppose their lives were judged less valuable than the goal of annihilating Hamas. It's the fault of the Israelis that Hamas hostages died? - next you will be telling us that it's Israels fault that the hostages were taken in the first place. Is there anything that is not Israels fault? Don't be absurd. Of course it's not Israel's fault that hostages were taken, but Israel plainly understood that their aerial bombardment of Gaza could kill their own people, and it did not prevent them from proceeding. They also didn't consider negotiating for the hostages before beginning their retaliatory strikes . Obviously the lives of the hostages are secondary to their end goal of annihilating Hamas. Let's just be honest about that. "The Israeli prime minister has told families that freeing the hostages is “one of the missions” of the war being waged against Hamas, but has so far not said that he will prioritise obtaining their release above the military objective of destroying the extremist Islamist organisation." www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/05/israeli-hostages-relatives-call-for-concessions-to-secure-their-release |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2023 6:54:25 GMT
Roughly 170 years of aggression and conflict against the Jews by the Palestinian Arabs, finally arrived at the 7th November massacre of Jews by Hamas. How should Israel have dealt with that massacre? How might other countries have handled such history and such a massacre? The premise of your post is flawed. Israel has been attacking the Palestinian Arabs since the creation of Israel, starting with the forced removal of close to 1m Arabs to make way for an Israeli state. Israel has been continually attacking Palestinians and stealing what little land they have left and have created an apartheid state. When you have a disparity of 96% to 4% in total deaths in the area one has to say Palestinians are, again being forced out. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 7, 2023 7:36:55 GMT
It's the fault of the Israelis that Hamas hostages died? - next you will be telling us that it's Israels fault that the hostages were taken in the first place. Is there anything that is not Israels fault? Don't be absurd. Of course it's not Israel's fault that hostages were taken, but Israel plainly understood that their aerial bombardment of Gaza could kill their own people, and it did not prevent them from proceeding. They also didn't consider negotiating for the hostages before beginning their retaliatory strikes . Obviously the lives of the hostages are secondary to their end goal of annihilating Hamas. Let's just be honest about that. "The Israeli prime minister has told families that freeing the hostages is “one of the missions” of the war being waged against Hamas, but has so far not said that he will prioritise obtaining their release above the military objective of destroying the extremist Islamist organisation." www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/05/israeli-hostages-relatives-call-for-concessions-to-secure-their-releaseBut the basic fact is that Hamas have not released the hostages. Israel has set out the criteria for a ceasefire - it's up to the Palestinians if they want one. Hamas could release all the hostages today (and repatriate the bodies of the dead) if they chose - but we all know they will not. |
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