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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 11:49:41 GMT
Sorry you missed the point. The difference between wind energy and Gas energy is wind is free at night but gas isn't. This adjusts the price overall, day and night in a downward direction. But only if you can persuade people to use some at night. So what would the cut off point be if the new peak periods were in the middle of the night and not mid day? Would we get a reduction for our mid day usage? Kind of, but you're still not quite there. Imagine we bought or day time gas from Norway, but at night we got half price gas from Sweden. What would happen is that demand for gas during the day would fall as people switched to doing things at night. That fall in demand would cause the price of gas from Norway to fall so your overall electricity bill would come down. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 11:50:52 GMT
But the wind blows and the water flows. Good idea I will build a water wheel have free energy and sell you the rest. Modern computer designed water wheels are incredibly efficient. Do you think we will see more local energy production as the technology gets recognised and accepted? |
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Post by sheepy on Sept 24, 2023 11:51:52 GMT
So what would the cut off point be if the new peak periods were in the middle of the night and not mid day? Would we get a reduction for our mid day usage? Kind of, but you're still not quite there. Imagine we bought or day time gas from Norway, but at night we got half price gas from Sweden. What would happen is that demand for gas during the day would fall as people switched to doing things at night. That fall in demand would cause the price of gas from Norway to fall so your overall electricity bill would come down. So have you changed demand or just moved it to somewhere else? |
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Post by jonksy on Sept 24, 2023 11:53:28 GMT
So what would the cut off point be if the new peak periods were in the middle of the night and not mid day? Would we get a reduction for our mid day usage? Kind of, but you're still not quite there. Imagine we bought or day time gas from Norway, but at night we got half price gas from Sweden. What would happen is that demand for gas during the day would fall as people switched to doing things at night. That fall in demand would cause the price of gas from Norway to fall so your overall electricity bill would come down. We all know that at high demand times prices can be reduced so all we would be doing is moving our peak periods. A cuppa at say 03.30 doesent have the same effect as our cuppas do at say 06.30 |
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Post by sheepy on Sept 24, 2023 11:56:45 GMT
Good idea I will build a water wheel have free energy and sell you the rest. Modern computer designed water wheels are incredibly efficient. Do you think we will see more local energy production as the technology gets recognised and accepted? I would take guess that if it was, the energy giants would become like supermarkets, they will give a set price and sell it back to you at a profit wiping out anything you think you might have gained at peak times when maybe you couldn't produce an excess. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 11:58:27 GMT
Kind of, but you're still not quite there. Imagine we bought or day time gas from Norway, but at night we got half price gas from Sweden. What would happen is that demand for gas during the day would fall as people switched to doing things at night. That fall in demand would cause the price of gas from Norway to fall so your overall electricity bill would come down. So have you changed demand or just moved it to somewhere else? Demand is just moved. But supply is free at night, which changes the dynamic. |
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Post by sheepy on Sept 24, 2023 12:01:21 GMT
So have you changed demand or just moved it to somewhere else? Demand is just moved. But supply is free at night, which changes the dynamic. In which case, you have done nothing to change my mind, it is a pure gimmick which will be short lived. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 12:01:51 GMT
Kind of, but you're still not quite there. Imagine we bought or day time gas from Norway, but at night we got half price gas from Sweden. What would happen is that demand for gas during the day would fall as people switched to doing things at night. That fall in demand would cause the price of gas from Norway to fall so your overall electricity bill would come down. We all know that at high demand times prices can be reduced so all we would be doing is moving our peak periods. A cuppa at say 03.30 doesent have the same effect as our cuppas do at say 06.30 Yes but its the free bit at night which changes everything. Peak periods would shift, though I have to say most power during the day is business rather than domestic. All those offices being lit and heated. Plus factories etc. We might find shift patterns change, or printers set up their machines during the day, but run them overnight. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 12:03:12 GMT
Demand is just moved. But supply is free at night, which changes the dynamic. In which case, you have done nothing to change my mind, it is a pure gimmick which will be short lived. Why? Free electric at night means the cost of all electric comes down. Can't see that being short lived. |
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Post by sheepy on Sept 24, 2023 12:04:53 GMT
In which case, you have done nothing to change my mind, it is a pure gimmick which will be short lived. Why? Free electric at night means the cost of all electric comes down. Can't see that being short lived. No it doesn't because demand will outstrip supply. Which I have taken the long route trying to explain. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 12:07:09 GMT
Do you think we will see more local energy production as the technology gets recognised and accepted? I would take guess that if it was, the energy giants would become like supermarkets, they will give a set price and sell it back to you at a profit wiping out anything you think you might have gained at peak times when maybe you couldn't produce an excess. Like supermarkets. So competition between suppliers. Where one supplier can get their food delivered free? You don't think they would use that to gain customers? And that the others would follow suit? Do you mean its a cartel and the energy companies would just take more profit? If so Octopus are already bucking the trend. |
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Post by jonksy on Sept 24, 2023 12:07:32 GMT
We all know that at high demand times prices can be reduced so all we would be doing is moving our peak periods. A cuppa at say 03.30 doesent have the same effect as our cuppas do at say 06.30 Yes but its the free bit at night which changes everything. Peak periods would shift, though I have to say most power during the day is business rather than domestic. All those offices being lit and heated. Plus factories etc. We might find shift patterns change, or printers set up their machines during the day, but run them overnight. It's just yet another ripoff Zany. Octopus send out letters to their clients asking if they can help especialy to those who pay as they go. If you take the deal they offer you still have to pay them back plus their commision on top how is that helping their clients? |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 12:08:00 GMT
Why? Free electric at night means the cost of all electric comes down. Can't see that being short lived. No it doesn't because demand will outstrip supply. Which I have taken the long route trying to explain. Sorry, how does producing free electricity at night increase demand? |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 12:09:17 GMT
Yes but its the free bit at night which changes everything. Peak periods would shift, though I have to say most power during the day is business rather than domestic. All those offices being lit and heated. Plus factories etc. We might find shift patterns change, or printers set up their machines during the day, but run them overnight. It's just yet another ripoff Zany. Octopus send out letters to their clients asking if they can help especialy to those who pay as they go. If you take the deal they offer you still have to pay them back plus their commision on top how is that helping their clients? Not sure here Jonsky. Have you a link. |
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Post by Orac on Sept 24, 2023 12:10:56 GMT
Let me put it in a different way so you can grasp what is being said. If the electricity supplier's fixed costs per day are 100 dollars, the customers have to (somehow) pay 100 dollars a day for their electricity. Do you agree? Here is a test - given the above If you offer electricity for free at 2am - 4am and customers exploit this massively and consequently need far less electricity during the rest of the day - how much do they have to pay you per day? Yes that's obvious. Let me try one on you. If Norway said any gas they supply at night is now free, would electricity prices rise or fall? If you offer electricity for free at 2am - 4am and customers exploit this massively and consequently need far less electricity during the rest of the day - how much do they have to pay you per day? we were talking about renewables |
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