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Post by sheepy on Sept 24, 2023 9:05:30 GMT
Edited the post to remove any perceived sarcasm LOL |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 24, 2023 9:24:05 GMT
No they didn't. I got rid of mine back when they were a thing. new tech would make them work better... Or not. They also solve the issue of heat pumps in certain properties... So does a gas boiler and much more efficiently. And free/cheap electricity when we produce more energy than we can use... The leccy might have been cheap, but they still didn't work very well. Will any of you admit this is a good step in the switch to renewable energy. I won't because it's just more greenwashing nonsense. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 9:28:14 GMT
Back to the octopus. I predict problems with their tariffs. If they supply electricity for free this fact will likely have to be reflected in their prices elsewhere (ie the overall deal) - if people exploit it I think their policy is to give away electricity that would otherwise need to be effectively destroyed. As people get used to the new idea of using cheap electricity at night or when their smart meter says is best, then the free stuff will disappear, but will still be cheaper than day time/ high demand power. Already people I know are cooking cakes, bread even stews overnight. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 9:34:06 GMT
Because gas central heating was far cheaper. The world changes. new tech would make them work better... Yeah technology is well known for not improving things.  They also solve the issue of heat pumps in certain properties... Not in the future. And free/cheap electricity when we produce more energy than we can use... We'll see. So easy to be a naysayer. Will any of you admit this is a good step in the switch to renewable energy. I won't because it's just more greenwashing nonsense. |
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Post by Orac on Sept 24, 2023 9:35:27 GMT
Back to the octopus. I predict problems with their tariffs. If they supply electricity for free this fact will likely have to be reflected in their prices elsewhere (ie the overall deal) - if people exploit it I think their policy is to give away electricity that would otherwise need to be effectively destroyed. As people get used to the new idea of using cheap electricity at night or when their smart meter says is best, then the free stuff will disappear, but will still be cheaper than day time/ high demand power. Already people I know are cooking cakes, bread even stews overnight. I get the idea. My notion is, if it changes customer behavior substantially, the amount they have to charge each customer for the normal service is going to change (rise). Think of it a bit like planned obsolescence - you can sell a refrigerator for £100, so long as it breaks down and has to be replaced in 5 years. If you sell refrigerators that last 100 years, you have to charge 10k for each or your business model doesn't work. |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 10:04:28 GMT
I think their policy is to give away electricity that would otherwise need to be effectively destroyed. As people get used to the new idea of using cheap electricity at night or when their smart meter says is best, then the free stuff will disappear, but will still be cheaper than day time/ high demand power. Already people I know are cooking cakes, bread even stews overnight. I get the idea. My notion is, if it changes customer behavior substantially, the amount they have to charge each customer for the normal service is going to change (rise). Think of it a bit like planned obsolescence - you can sell a refrigerator for £100, so long as it breaks down and has to be replaced in 5 years. If you sell refrigerators that last 100 years, you have to charge 10k for each or your business model doesn't work. Almost certainly (Supply and demand) what it demonstrates is that we can produce electricity very cheaply using renewable energy so long as people can be persuaded to adjust their behaviour and that this is not just a green dream. |
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Post by Orac on Sept 24, 2023 10:13:13 GMT
I get the idea. My notion is, if it changes customer behavior substantially, the amount they have to charge each customer for the normal service is going to change (rise). Think of it a bit like planned obsolescence - you can sell a refrigerator for £100, so long as it breaks down and has to be replaced in 5 years. If you sell refrigerators that last 100 years, you have to charge 10k for each or your business model doesn't work. Almost certainly (Supply and demand) what it demonstrates is that we can produce electricity very cheaply using renewable energy so long as people can be persuaded to adjust their behaviour and that this is not just a green dream. I think that is ignoring my point that the overall price to customers has to cover the overall costs of production. I would say the overall cost of production is pretty fixed in this case. |
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Post by sheepy on Sept 24, 2023 10:16:15 GMT
Almost certainly (Supply and demand) what it demonstrates is that we can produce electricity very cheaply using renewable energy so long as people can be persuaded to adjust their behaviour and that this is not just a green dream. I think that is ignoring my point that the overall price to customers has to cover the overall costs of production. I would say the overall cost of production is pretty fixed in this case. I think maybe this where zany will be tripping over his own ego, because it certainly isn't fixed price, it has a reliance on commodity brokers who are only interested in the bottom line, which also makes it very seasonable as far as supply and demand goes. |
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Post by Orac on Sept 24, 2023 10:24:14 GMT
I think that is ignoring my point that the overall price to customers has to cover the overall costs of production. I would say the overall cost of production is pretty fixed in this case. I think maybe this where zany will be tripping over his own ego, because it certainly isn't fixed price, it has a reliance on commodity brokers who are only interested in the bottom line, which also makes it very seasonable as far as supply and demand goes. That's another way to make the same observation - the free energy will be 'bought' at the low price and resold at the high. You end up at the same place - that is the costs of production have to be covered and the energy will be sold at the highest price it can be. I think the actual costs of production of renewable are very fixed - ie it costs the same even if your produce nothing at all. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 24, 2023 10:39:44 GMT
So let me get this straight - we moved away from night storage heaters because we found a better method of heating our homes and now we are supposed to go back to night storage heaters because that better method has been banned.
Welcome to the future - its the same as the past.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 24, 2023 10:49:29 GMT
So let me get this straight - we moved away from night storage heaters because we found a better method of heating our homes and now we are supposed to go back to night storage heaters because that better method has been banned. Welcome to the future - its the same as the past. Well yeah but no - it'll be different this time 'cos of technology, innit?
[/]Sarcasm[/]
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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 10:53:31 GMT
Almost certainly (Supply and demand) what it demonstrates is that we can produce electricity very cheaply using renewable energy so long as people can be persuaded to adjust their behaviour and that this is not just a green dream. I think that is ignoring my point that the overall price to customers has to cover the overall costs of production. I would say the overall cost of production is pretty fixed in this case. I acknowledge your point. The difference is that once built the electricity from renewable is as free as the wind. There is no advantage in NOT using the electricity at night as its produced anyway. Unlike Gas or coal where you can scale down production at night to suit demand. Do you get me now? |
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Post by sheepy on Sept 24, 2023 10:55:22 GMT
I think that is ignoring my point that the overall price to customers has to cover the overall costs of production. I would say the overall cost of production is pretty fixed in this case. I acknowledge your point. The difference is that once built the electricity from renewable is as free as the wind. There is no advantage in NOT using the electricity at night as its produced anyway. Unlike Gas or coal where you can scale down production at night to suit demand. Do you get me now? It is fair brilliant zany, but what will you use if the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine? Or black is white gets his meter out again? |
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Post by zanygame on Sept 24, 2023 10:56:29 GMT
So let me get this straight - we moved away from night storage heaters because we found a better method of heating our homes and now we are supposed to go back to night storage heaters because that better method has been banned. Welcome to the future - its the same as the past. Nope. Do at least try and keep up. Renewable energy is proving to be cheaper than what we had, so we're adapting to the new technology. Not to mention us NOT having to rely on unstable countries to supply us with the goodies. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 24, 2023 11:02:04 GMT
So let me get this straight - we moved away from night storage heaters because we found a better method of heating our homes and now we are supposed to go back to night storage heaters because that better method has been banned. Welcome to the future - its the same as the past. Nope. Do at least try and keep up. Renewable energy is proving to be cheaper than what we had, so we're adapting to the new technology. No it is not - the last wind power bidding round showed you that. You are having a Giraffe - the latest idea is to import solar power from Egypt. Yes that country that is renowned as being a haven of stability and safety. |
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