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Post by Tinculin on Jul 18, 2023 11:50:09 GMT
If they’re a year old, wont they still be under warranty?
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 18, 2023 12:11:44 GMT
They might be still under warranty - certainly if they're with the original owner. Many BEV manufacturers give an 8 year guarantee that their battery will retain 75% of its capacity after this time. But I wonder if it's one of these guarantees that can never be claimed on. I was foolish enough to buy a new Mercedes some years ago because of their Mobilo 30 year guarantee against rust - provided that it was serviced at a Merc dealer.
When it started to go rusty after 4 years (just outside normal guarantee) I took it down to the dealer thinking that it would be rectified without argument. I was referred to the fine print of the Mobilo guarantee. It was immediately clear that the car would have to have large holes in the bodywork for any claim for repair to be upheld. And the dealer told me that he'd had 3 year old Mercedes coming in for rust repairs and Mercedes refused to contribute anything.
It's another scam.
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Post by antiloop on Jul 19, 2023 10:36:52 GMT
It's not encouraging when carparks are removing charging points, we have a local M&S, the carpark had a couple of charging points, the other week they were cordoned off, next week we went they'd been 'removed'? That's because time runs backwards where you live. EV charging facilities are being installed at record rates across the UK. June 2023 saw a 36% increase in the total number of charging devices over June 2022.
I know the Gridserve unit prices are absurdly expensive, but the company is moving very quickly now in their installation of charging points across the Moto service station network.
I'm sure it will come together over the next 10 years but I'm certainly in no rush to buy one!
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 19, 2023 10:54:08 GMT
That's because time runs backwards where you live. EV charging facilities are being installed at record rates across the UK. June 2023 saw a 36% increase in the total number of charging devices over June 2022.
I know the Gridserve unit prices are absurdly expensive, but the company is moving very quickly now in their installation of charging points across the Moto service station network.
I'm sure it will come together over the next 10 years but I'm certainly in no rush to buy one!
So we will have one firm monopolise motorway charging will we?
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 20, 2023 15:16:18 GMT
Interesting article I just read: Are electric cars really better for the environment?Manufacturing the petrol car generates 16.1 tonnes of CO2; manufacturing the electric car produces 26.2 tonnes of CO2. This data only concerns two individual vehicles, but the scientific consensus is that the materials required for EV batteries are CO2 intensive - linkThe link talks about the 'life' of the car, whether EV or petrol/diesel, but that imo is a bit vague. I mean, it's not difficult to put ¼million miles on a diesel car if it's looked after. Are EV batteries going to last for a ¼million miles?
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 21, 2023 12:35:47 GMT
I think it's pretty obvious to anybody who knows anything about BEVs that they're a hoax. Even if they were viable they wouldn't save any CO2, which appears to be what the requirement is. But they're not viable for so many obvious reasons.
It's a hoax, I'm afraid, and it becomes more obvious by the day.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 21, 2023 12:44:57 GMT
I think it's pretty obvious to anybody who knows anything about BEVs that they're a hoax. Even if they were viable they wouldn't save any CO2, which appears to be what the requirement is. But they're not viable for so many obvious reasons. It's a hoax, I'm afraid, and it becomes more obvious by the day. They are the future, not just viable. Anyone who really knows what is going on in the industry will tell you that. The "so many problems" are all self-inflicted by this stupid Marxist country.
Electricity over in China is 7p a unit and you can buy a small runabout EV for $1300 on Alibaba. You don't even need to get off your bum to the showroom. You click on it and it arrives at your door. Solar and hydro schemes in China have a payback period of 18 months. Unless you look at the detailed financial figures and you read the British press you will remain 95% ignorant. In the UK it is another excuse to rip the punter off. Don't blame your tools!
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 22, 2023 6:36:52 GMT
I think it's pretty obvious to anybody who knows anything about BEVs that they're a hoax. Even if they were viable they wouldn't save any CO2, which appears to be what the requirement is. But they're not viable for so many obvious reasons. It's a hoax, I'm afraid, and it becomes more obvious by the day. They are the future, not just viable. Anyone who really knows what is going on in the industry will tell you that. The "so many problems" are all self-inflicted by this stupid Marxist country.
Electricity over in China is 7p a unit and you can buy a small runabout EV for $1300 on Alibaba. You don't even need to get off your bum to the showroom. You click on it and it arrives at your door. Solar and hydro schemes in China have a payback period of 18 months. Unless you look at the detailed financial figures and you read the British press you will remain 95% ignorant. In the UK it is another excuse to rip the punter off. Don't blame your tools!
BEVs are NOT the future - they're a ridiculous dead-end and those who work in the industry know this perfectly well. The thing is that if a government tells an industry to do something stupid they don't turn round and tell them to fuck off, they just say OK how much will you pay us? A good example of this is the recent decision of Tata to build a BEV battery plant in Somerset. They know perfectly well that it's impossible to make an energy-intensive process like battery production viable in the UK because of the cost of energy, but they also know that that they can pocket a good proportion of the £500 million that the govt has offered and then just abandon the project when it goes bust. Which it will. It's the same with BEVs. All the manufacturers know perfectly well that they're a non-starter, but the govt have mandated them by 2030 and are providing subsidies for purchasers, so the manufacturers are perfectly happy to provide them while they're making money. Why not. But most manufacturers (apart from Tesla) retain their ability to make conventional cars and can fairly easily revert to ICE cars, when BEVs become unviable. I think China's involvement in this debacle is pretty sinister. I'm pretty sure that the whole BEV project was started because of disinformation about CO2's role in so-called "climate change". The requirement to cut CO2 has made ICE cars a bete noire with many stupid people who think that CO2 is a pollutant as opposed to an essential part of the atmosphere. The disinformation about CO2 almost certainly comes from China and Russia. It's not a coincidence that moving to BEVs means that China can virtually take over world car production and battery production because the West's huge advantage in ICE car production would disappear - anyone can make electric cars. At some point people will realise what's going on. People are already going off BEVs as they realise that they're not cheaper to run and that they're a pain to recharge in most parts of the country and also take a very long time.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 22, 2023 8:20:42 GMT
The fact Rishi stuffs his mates Indian pockets should not have any bearing on the actual technology, which in my view is excellent. Loads of people around the world have done excellent technical work refining it. Our government shits on us.
In my view the advantages of electric cars mean they are better even if you do not give a shit about global warming.
Let me run though s few of my preferences.
1) The energy use is far more efficient > 99% for large motors and mechanical electrical generators vs Carnot limit with internal combustion.
2) Electric motors are extremely simple, vs your V8 DOHC, hence cheaper and lighter.
3) Power delivery response time is measured in ms, turbos are measured in seconds.
4) Individual drives can be applied to each wheel hence improving handling/anti-lock breaking for free + better cornering and software programmable rides.
5) From 2 = more reliable.
6) They are virtually silent
7) much longer lifetime
8) Far higher power to weight ratio re engine.
9) Low centre of gravity.
10) No pollution/smog in cities etc.
11) Better for wildlife. Petrol fumes destroy the natural world.
These are things that are never mentioned by the haters of progress. They find one or two issues and think it is the end of the world. Thing is the problems they identify are being fixed by busier people than they.
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Post by Handyman on Jul 22, 2023 19:12:09 GMT
Interesting article I just read: Are electric cars really better for the environment?Manufacturing the petrol car generates 16.1 tonnes of CO2; manufacturing the electric car produces 26.2 tonnes of CO2. This data only concerns two individual vehicles, but the scientific consensus is that the materials required for EV batteries are CO2 intensive - linkThe link talks about the 'life' of the car, whether EV or petrol/diesel, but that imo is a bit vague. I mean, it's not difficult to put ¼million miles on a diesel car if it's looked after. Are EV batteries going to last for a ¼million miles? Just read an article on EV's and Hybrid cars the Fire Brigade if called to a car fire they usually send just one Fire Tender, if its an EV or Hybrid they send two as they are harder to put out, they burn that fiercely and shout out flames of fire like a rocket fir up to several metres , they burn much hotter and produce Hydrogen Cyanide
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 24, 2023 9:31:14 GMT
I mean, surely the takeaway here is that if EV’s are deprecating alot after 1 year, and you want to buy an EV, buy a car that’s 1 year old? I suspect EV’s are over priced because they are in so demand and it’s a consequence of supply (low), vs demand (high). However doing a quick search on auto trader, a 3 year old Tesla M3 is selling for around 26-34,000, and has in 2023 a RRP of ~42,000. If the rule of a car losing around 30-50% it’s value in 3 years holds true then it doesn’t seem all these cars are depreciated abnormally compared to traditional ICE vehicles? EV’s are priced to take advantage of the corporate tax breaks When i went looking to flog mine, the salesman at the garage formerly my go to place when i needed a car explained everything As you know a company car carries an income tax perk burden on your P11D For the £23,500 MG estate petrol available now from a dealer in Cwmbran that P11D burden is 38% of the book price which is mire than £23,500 For the EV version that P11D burden is 4% Car manufacturers can charge £50,000 for an EV which a workers employer catches the bill for from money they would never see even if it were not frittered away on stupidity like this, and their personal tax burden is a £2000 reduction in your tax code or £36 ? a month for an employee on less than £50k
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