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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 15, 2023 17:44:17 GMT
You're paranoid. It's just made by a normal firm over there. Chinese companies are reputed to be good places to work. You seem to think it is some kind of military dictatorship. Chinese folk don't give a shit where you drive your car. All they give a shit abut is that you are happy with your product. See thread in world view - ukpoliticsdebate.boards.net/thread/3467/extremely-targeted-chinese-attack-europeLook, the best way to understand Chinese companies is they are much the same as our own. No more would you expect this firm to track you than Boots the chemist. It's just not their job.
The US is different though. They had CIA firmware installed in Samsung TVs so they could listen to anything said in the room and send it down the internet. No one has ever seen China doing similar with its commercial firms. It's all imagination of the crazies.
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Post by bancroft on Jul 15, 2023 17:46:57 GMT
I was talking to a chap that managed a removal service so he had several trucks I asked him about BEVs and said he would never touch one again.
Said according to the car data after a charge the vehicle could do 300 miles yet his driver fully loaded ran out of charge at 70 miles.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 15, 2023 20:51:02 GMT
I was talking to a chap that managed a removal service so he had several trucks I asked him about BEVs and said he would never touch one again. Said according to the car data after a charge the vehicle could do 300 miles yet his driver fully loaded ran out of charge at 70 miles. Mind you, if you only paid a grand for it in the first place it would not be the end of the world. What the ultra cheap Chinese cars do these days is they sell them at a base price which does not include the battery so you the customer either pick your own battery from your dealer or fit your own if you really want to. It is good practice to make batteries easily swap-in replacements from a variety of manufacturers. It is the way they do things in China and it makes products so much cheaper for no loss in quality. Battery technology is getting a lot better than it was. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 17, 2023 6:50:22 GMT
Is battery technology "getting a lot better than it was"? They're still Li-ion with all the inherent problems of that technology. They're still very heavy, they still cost a fortune, they still take hours to charge up and they still degrade. We keep on being told that new technology is just round the corner but it never arrives.
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 17, 2023 6:52:50 GMT
Apparently Toyota reckon they have a working solid state battery - whether it is commercially viable is another matter.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 17, 2023 7:16:56 GMT
It's like nuclear fusion - it's always 10 years away.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 17, 2023 8:47:07 GMT
Is battery technology "getting a lot better than it was"? They're still Li-ion with all the inherent problems of that technology. They're still very heavy, they still cost a fortune, they still take hours to charge up and they still degrade. We keep on being told that new technology is just round the corner but it never arrives. CATL's new battery does not use lithium. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 17, 2023 10:20:10 GMT
So when's it available for BEVs and how much does it cost per kWh - and how quickly does it charge? Etc.
But it almost doesn't really matter because the National Grid can't even supply 150kW chargers.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 17, 2023 10:44:34 GMT
So when's it available for BEVs and how much does it cost per kWh - and how quickly does it charge? Etc. But it almost doesn't really matter because the National Grid can't even supply 150kW chargers. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 18, 2023 6:08:56 GMT
His car might have suffered bad depreciation, but that can happen on any car if you buy the wrong model / colour / spec. I was watching a video on somebody speccing a new Lamborghini... the salesmen told him if you spec cheap the car will be virtually un-sellable.The point being... an example of one car does not reflect a trend on the entire EV market. Hold the front page. Car salesman encourages buyer to specify a lot of options.  |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jul 18, 2023 6:16:48 GMT
So when's it available for BEVs and how much does it cost per kWh - and how quickly does it charge? Etc. But it almost doesn't really matter because the National Grid can't even supply 150kW chargers. Big dog's bollocks. You're certainly a sucker for Chinese propaganda, BvL. Let me know when these things are actually in production and being used in cars. Meanwhile, as I said, it's pretty irrelevant as our National Grid can't supply medium fast chargers even now - when there are very few BEVs around. It hasn't got the power (we need about 5 new large nuclear power stations according to some estimates) and it hasn't got the means of distributing the power. |
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Post by Tinculin on Jul 18, 2023 7:19:00 GMT
I mean, surely the takeaway here is that if EV’s are deprecating alot after 1 year, and you want to buy an EV, buy a car that’s 1 year old?
I suspect EV’s are over priced because they are in so demand and it’s a consequence of supply (low), vs demand (high).
However doing a quick search on auto trader, a 3 year old Tesla M3 is selling for around 26-34,000, and has in 2023 a RRP of ~42,000.
If the rule of a car losing around 30-50% it’s value in 3 years holds true then it doesn’t seem all these cars are depreciated abnormally compared to traditional ICE vehicles?
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 18, 2023 7:41:44 GMT
I think you need to compare like with like - an ICE Porsche depreciates 50% over 3 years, the EV Porsche looks to have depreciated 50% over 1 year.
Whether this is an issue that is a specific issue for EV Porsche's is the big question.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 18, 2023 10:32:56 GMT
Big dog's bollocks. You're certainly a sucker for Chinese propaganda, BvL. Let me know when these things are actually in production and being used in cars. Meanwhile, as I said, it's pretty irrelevant as our National Grid can't supply medium fast chargers even now - when there are very few BEVs around. It hasn't got the power (we need about 5 new large nuclear power stations according to some estimates) and it hasn't got the means of distributing the power. Grow up would you. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 18, 2023 10:36:18 GMT
I mean, surely the takeaway here is that if EV’s are deprecating alot after 1 year, and you want to buy an EV, buy a car that’s 1 year old? I suspect EV’s are over priced because they are in so demand and it’s a consequence of supply (low), vs demand (high). However doing a quick search on auto trader, a 3 year old Tesla M3 is selling for around 26-34,000, and has in 2023 a RRP of ~42,000. If the rule of a car losing around 30-50% it’s value in 3 years holds true then it doesn’t seem all these cars are depreciated abnormally compared to traditional ICE vehicles? How would you tell if the batteries were any good when buying second hand? Let them completely discharge or charge then completely each time and 6000 cycle life could turn into 600. |
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