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Post by Montegriffo on Jun 1, 2023 17:40:17 GMT
Not really. This just marks acceptance that EVs are the future and the taxman wants his cut. You think? I tend to disagree. EV's are expensive to buy and are unlikely to become more affordable over time. Soaring energy costs mean it will become increasingly expensive charge an EV. They are still largely unproven, but an EV battery is unlikely to last anywhere near as long as a petrol/diesel car. EV's are an environmental nightmare build and to dispose of. EV's never meet range targets which are reduced even further in cold weather. EV's cause more damage to roads than petrol/diesel cars a fact that councils are slowly realising. Councils are considering banning EV's from multi story car parks due their weight and because they're a fire hazard. Monte, the promises made about electric cars a few years ago, are slowly crumbling. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 1, 2023 17:50:26 GMT
Since odometers can be easily disabled it's quite likely tracking devices such as the ''black boxes'' used by young drivers to reduce their insurance premiums would be used. Is that the future you want for motorists Red? More surveillance of citizens' movements? That's exactly what's coming, Monte. That's what those ULEZ cameras (and the equivalents in other cities) are all about: Thou shalt not leave your 15 minute city. People buying an electric vehicle are in for a rude shock. Remember when they encouraged everyone to buy diesel? |
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Post by patman post on Jun 1, 2023 18:05:56 GMT
A think tank has proposed the UK Government should introduce ’pay-as-you-drive’ tax for electric vehicles (EVs) to replace lost revenues from fuel duty and VED. The Centre for Policy Studies recommends in its report ‘The Future of Driving’ that zero emission vehicles (ZEVs) should be charged a flat rate for every mile they drive, with the aim that they would still be paying significantly less than their petrol and diesel counterparts. www.am-online.com/news/market-insight/2023/05/24/govt-advised-to-apply-pay-as-you-go-road-tax-for-evsThe recommended charge is 6p per mile which is still less than petrol/diesel fuel duty. But it's not going to stay at 6p per mile is it, like everything it will go up. The wheels seem to be comming off the electric vehicle dream. Some people pay their car insurance in the same way. There’s also been recommendations of making all vehicles pay for their road usage per mile/kilometre. Hybrid and fossil fuelled vehicles can all be charged according to their mileage at the pump. Seems easy and totally fair. Gas guzzlers and oil burners still get charged extra at the pumps for their pollution — if they reduce miles travelled and speed, the less they’ll get charged. The worst polluters can also be charged a daily rate for entering designated low emission zones. All totally fair… |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 1, 2023 18:06:00 GMT
In the past, the average lifespan of a car was significantly lower than it is today. Now, you can expect a standard car to last around 12 years or about 200,000 miles. More advanced vehicles like electric cars can go even longer, up to 300,000 miles. It would be interesting to know how many batteries an EV with 300,000 on the clock had gone through. I know someone who had a electric Mercedes that needed a new battery, he was quoted £14,000. I don't know what the millage was, but I know the car was only five years old. Unsurprisingly he now drives a diesel Mercedes. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 1, 2023 18:15:31 GMT
A think tank has proposed the UK Government should introduce ’pay-as-you-drive’ tax for electric vehicles (EVs) to replace lost revenues from fuel duty and VED. The Centre for Policy Studies recommends in its report ‘The Future of Driving’ that zero emission vehicles (ZEVs) should be charged a flat rate for every mile they drive, with the aim that they would still be paying significantly less than their petrol and diesel counterparts. www.am-online.com/news/market-insight/2023/05/24/govt-advised-to-apply-pay-as-you-go-road-tax-for-evsThe recommended charge is 6p per mile which is still less than petrol/diesel fuel duty. But it's not going to stay at 6p per mile is it, like everything it will go up. The wheels seem to be comming off the electric vehicle dream. Some people pay their car insurance in the same way. There’s also been recommendations of making all vehicles pay for their road usage per mile/kilometre. Hybrid and fossil fuelled vehicles can all be charged according to their mileage at the pump. Seems easy and totally fair. Gas guzzlers and oil burners still get charged extra at the pumps for their pollution — if they reduce miles travelled and speed, the less they’ll get charged. The worst polluters can also be charged a daily rate for entering designated low emission zones. All totally fair… Yes indeed, it's been talked about for some years and I imagine something like that will inevitably happen. Incidentally, petrol/diesel cars do pay for mileage at the pump. It's called fuel duty and I pay a small fortune in VED or road tax for the privilage of driving a 'gas guzzler'. I only put about 3 or 4 thousand miles a year on it, but that's irrelevant. If we had pay per mile across the board I'd probably benefit, but I'm still not interested in the state monitoring my every journey although like I said, one way or another it's probably comming. |
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Post by patman post on Jun 1, 2023 18:25:19 GMT
Some people pay their car insurance in the same way. There’s also been recommendations of making all vehicles pay for their road usage per mile/kilometre. Hybrid and fossil fuelled vehicles can all be charged according to their mileage at the pump. Seems easy and totally fair. Gas guzzlers and oil burners still get charged extra at the pumps for their pollution — if they reduce miles travelled and speed, the less they’ll get charged. The worst polluters can also be charged a daily rate for entering designated low emission zones. All totally fair… Yes indeed, it's been talked about for some years and I imagine something like that will inevitably happen. Incidentally, petrol/diesel cars do pay for mileage at the pump. It's called fuel duty and I pay a small fortune in VED or road tax for the privilage of driving a 'gas guzzler'. I only put about 3 or 4 thousand miles a year on it, but that's irrelevant. If we had pay per mile across the board I'd probably benefit, but I'm still not interested in the state monitoring my every journey although like I said, one way or another it's probably comming. Isn’t the ultimate aim to remove the yearly charge and transfer it to charging for use? Hope so, it seems the fair way of getting everyone to pay. There are still untaxed and uninsured cars driving around. Ensuring every vehicle is traceable and pays as it moves would be a winner. I just hope some thought is given to controlling the unregistered lawless two wheelers… |
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Post by patman post on Jun 1, 2023 18:26:48 GMT
Yes indeed, it's been talked about for some years and I imagine something like that will inevitably happen. Incidentally, petrol/diesel cars do pay for mileage at the pump. It's called fuel duty and I pay a small fortune in VED or road tax for the privilage of driving a 'gas guzzler'. I only put about 3 or 4 thousand miles a year on it, but that's irrelevant. If we had pay per mile across the board I'd probably benefit, but I'm still not interested in the state monitoring my every journey although like I said, one way or another it's probably comming. Isn’t the ultimate aim to remove the yearly charge and transfer it to charging for use? Hope so, it seems the fair way of getting everyone to pay. Double the cost of fuel at the pump rather than collecting a yearly charge, and I bet road use will drop. There are still untaxed and uninsured cars driving around. Ensuring every vehicle is traceable and pays as it moves would be a winner. I just hope some thought is given to controlling the unregistered lawless two wheelers… |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 1, 2023 18:47:34 GMT
Yes indeed, it's been talked about for some years and I imagine something like that will inevitably happen. Incidentally, petrol/diesel cars do pay for mileage at the pump. It's called fuel duty and I pay a small fortune in VED or road tax for the privilage of driving a 'gas guzzler'. I only put about 3 or 4 thousand miles a year on it, but that's irrelevant. If we had pay per mile across the board I'd probably benefit, but I'm still not interested in the state monitoring my every journey although like I said, one way or another it's probably comming. Isn’t the ultimate aim to remove the yearly charge and transfer it to charging for use? Hope so, it seems the fair way of getting everyone to pay. There are still untaxed and uninsured cars driving around. Ensuring every vehicle is traceable and pays as it moves would be a winner. I just hope some thought is given to controlling the unregistered lawless two wheelers… You obviously have no objection to the state injecting you with a chip. I do object, and until I have no choice will not acquiesce, but tbh, I don't think it's anything I should be concerned about. I have every confidence that we will in the future be tracked and monitored like never before, privacy will be something people whisper about in case they are overheard. But like I say it's nothing that concerns me, I'll be long dead. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jun 1, 2023 20:10:08 GMT
Some people pay their car insurance in the same way. There’s also been recommendations of making all vehicles pay for their road usage per mile/kilometre. Hybrid and fossil fuelled vehicles can all be charged according to their mileage at the pump. Seems easy and totally fair. Gas guzzlers and oil burners still get charged extra at the pumps for their pollution — if they reduce miles travelled and speed, the less they’ll get charged. The worst polluters can also be charged a daily rate for entering designated low emission zones. All totally fair… Yes indeed, it's been talked about for some years and I imagine something like that will inevitably happen. Incidentally, petrol/diesel cars do pay for mileage at the pump. It's called fuel duty and I pay a small fortune in VED or road tax for the privilage of driving a 'gas guzzler'. I only put about 3 or 4 thousand miles a year on it, but that's irrelevant. If we had pay per mile across the board I'd probably benefit, but I'm still not interested in the state monitoring my every journey although like I said, one way or another it's probably comming. It won't be limited to EVs either Red. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 1, 2023 20:15:54 GMT
Yes indeed, it's been talked about for some years and I imagine something like that will inevitably happen. Incidentally, petrol/diesel cars do pay for mileage at the pump. It's called fuel duty and I pay a small fortune in VED or road tax for the privilage of driving a 'gas guzzler'. I only put about 3 or 4 thousand miles a year on it, but that's irrelevant. If we had pay per mile across the board I'd probably benefit, but I'm still not interested in the state monitoring my every journey although like I said, one way or another it's probably comming. It won't be limited to EVs either Red. Yes I know. As I said above, I would benefit from pay-per-mile, but I'm not interested. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jun 1, 2023 20:57:25 GMT
In the past, the average lifespan of a car was significantly lower than it is today. Now, you can expect a standard car to last around 12 years or about 200,000 miles. More advanced vehicles like electric cars can go even longer, up to 300,000 miles. It would be interesting to know how many batteries an EV with 300,000 on the clock had gone through. I know someone who had a electric Mercedes that needed a new battery, he was quoted £14,000. I don't know what the millage was, but I know the car was only five years old. Unsurprisingly he now drives a diesel Mercedes. I've had a quick search and most batteries are under warranty for 8 years or 100k miles and are expected to last up to 200k. I suspect your friend was guilty of overcharging his. www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/charging/how-long-do-electric-car-batteries-last/ |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 1, 2023 21:06:57 GMT
It would be interesting to know how many batteries an EV with 300,000 on the clock had gone through. I know someone who had a electric Mercedes that needed a new battery, he was quoted £14,000. I don't know what the millage was, but I know the car was only five years old. Unsurprisingly he now drives a diesel Mercedes. I've had a quick search and most batteries are under warranty for 8 years or 100k miles and are expected to last up to 200k. I suspect your friend was guilty of overcharging his. www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/charging/how-long-do-electric-car-batteries-last/Your link Monte suggests there are a lot of hoops to jump through to achieve optimum battery efficiency, and it doesn't mention the 'fact' that range and battery efficiency is reduced in cold weather. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Jun 1, 2023 21:11:21 GMT
Your link Monte suggests there are a lot of hoops to jump through to achieve optimum battery efficiency, and it doesn't mention the 'fact' that range and battery efficiency is reduced in cold weather. No different from extending the life of your car's engine. As an engineer I'm sure you always warm your engine up for 2 or 3 minutes before moving off in order to reduce wear. You will also change your oil at the recommended distances along with fuel, air and oil filters. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 1, 2023 21:11:47 GMT
I'd prefer it to fuel and road tax - it has the benefit that you can have dynamic pricing where those who travel at peak times on the most congested roads pay more than those who travel on remote country lanes. Then the polluter pays. Yes I understand that, but personally I don't want to be monitored. I don't want 'the state' to know where I go, or on what date I go there, or what route I took to get there etc etc. We're monitored and tracked enough. I get what you mean but this has quite a few benefits. It would be quite easy to tie it in to the Cars electronics so that if the car didn't have an MOT or Insurance it would not move - could get quite a few yobs and trash off the roads. |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 1, 2023 21:13:42 GMT
Your link Monte suggests there are a lot of hoops to jump through to achieve optimum battery efficiency, and it doesn't mention the 'fact' that range and battery efficiency is reduced in cold weather. GM and Ford have found out that with every charge capacity falls of by as much as 1.3 percent. No wonder the mighty US Ford have dropped EV's from their range with no return in the forseeable future. And then what do you do with the bloody things once they are scrapped? Like Turbine blades they are not economically viable to recycle. |
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