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Post by zanygame on Nov 23, 2024 14:10:04 GMT
Yep. If you don't save enough for your pension you should be left to starve. Bring back the Victorians I say. If you do too little then people get crushed If you do too much, then you undermine incentives and the flan folds in If you put someone in charge of the problem, they create a bureaucratic empire that has an interest in hobbling people It's insoluble without some extra incentive acting as glue - honor perhaps? or Family? Strangely I agree in family in a way. Sadly our image of the family with strong morals is wistful. There were bad parents and vagabond kids in that strongest of moral times, the Victorians. You only have to read dickens to know that. |
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Post by Totheleft on Nov 23, 2024 14:17:41 GMT
what about them on the lower end of state pension them you obviously had a faux care for who didnt have private pension are they losers and envious What’s a “ faux care”? You post a false claim then post a false phrase. Everyone can have a private pension . But not everyone does |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 23, 2024 14:21:46 GMT
What’s a “ faux care”? You post a false claim then post a false phrase. Everyone can have a private pension . But not everyone does Not everyone does what ?. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 23, 2024 17:28:56 GMT
If you do too little then people get crushed If you do too much, then you undermine incentives and the flan folds in If you put someone in charge of the problem, they create a bureaucratic empire that has an interest in hobbling people It's insoluble without some extra incentive acting as glue - honor perhaps? or Family? Strangely I agree in family in a way. Sadly our image of the family with strong morals is wistful. There were bad parents and vagabond kids in that strongest of moral times, the Victorians. You only have to read dickens to know that. I think you may not be getting my drift - the welfare system wont work without this glue |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 23, 2024 17:35:34 GMT
It’s curious to think anyone could believe that the strongest of ‘ moral times ‘ was during the reign of Victoria.
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Post by zanygame on Nov 23, 2024 17:54:36 GMT
Strangely I agree in family in a way. Sadly our image of the family with strong morals is wistful. There were bad parents and vagabond kids in that strongest of moral times, the Victorians. You only have to read dickens to know that. I think you may not be getting my drift - the welfare system wont work without this glue How so? |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 23, 2024 17:55:38 GMT
It’s curious to think anyone could believe that the strongest of ‘ moral times ‘ was during the reign of Victoria. It was certainly the time when morals were most preached. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 23, 2024 17:58:43 GMT
It’s curious to think anyone could believe that the strongest of ‘ moral times ‘ was during the reign of Victoria. It was certainly the time when morals were most preached. Was it? Where ‘morals’ preached less in Tudor times ? How do you know? Are ‘ moral times ‘ measured by how much they are ‘ preached ‘? |
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Post by Orac on Nov 23, 2024 18:04:05 GMT
I think you may not be getting my drift - the welfare system wont work without this glue How so? Because 1) You are asking people to make sacrifices for others 2) you are asking people not to cheat for others |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 23, 2024 18:04:49 GMT
It was certainly the time when morals were most preached. Was it? Where ‘morals’ preached less in Tudor times ? How do you know? Are ‘ moral times ‘ measured by how much they are ‘ preached ‘? Read a bit of history and judge for yourself. Dickens certainly thought so. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 23, 2024 18:09:14 GMT
Was it? Where ‘morals’ preached less in Tudor times ? How do you know? Are ‘ moral times ‘ measured by how much they are ‘ preached ‘? Read a bit of history and judge for yourself. Dickens certainly thought so. Dickens died in 1870. So did Dickens claim that “ morals” were preached less in Tudor times and/ “ moral times “ are measured by how much they are preached ? I get the feeling that you have no idea 😁 |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 23, 2024 18:12:46 GMT
Because 1) You are asking people to make sacrifices for others 2) you are asking people not to cheat for others Got you. I would say that it relies on a feeling of place, that you are a valued part of society. Whenever society has broken down historically it was when the wealth gap grew too large. The people at the bottom feel disenfranchised and begin to abuse the system and steal. It doesn't matter how well off the poor are, what matters is the difference in living standard. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 23, 2024 19:14:11 GMT
Because 1) You are asking people to make sacrifices for others 2) you are asking people not to cheat for others I would say that it relies on a feeling of place, that you are a valued part of society. Whenever society has broken down historically it was when the wealth gap grew too large. I have sneaking suspicion about this - so how do you prevent a wealth gap?..ohh..a welfare system So you are saying that a welfare system is a requirement in order to maintain a stable welfare system |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 23, 2024 19:46:52 GMT
I would say that it relies on a feeling of place, that you are a valued part of society. Whenever society has broken down historically it was when the wealth gap grew too large. I have sneaking suspicion about this - so how do you prevent a wealth gap?..ohh..a welfare system So you are saying that a welfare system is a requirement in order to maintain a stable welfare system You don't need to prevent a wealth gap, its a good thing. Humans need the ability to shine, to do better. It drives invention and progress. What we need to control is the size of the gap. If you have the 5 richest families in the UK owning the same amount of money as 32million others while at the other end people unable to heat their homes. Then you have discontent. So yes you need a system that takes some money from the rich and makes the life of the poorer ok. IMHO I think what has broken is that the extremely wealthy seem to have excused themselves from the equation. Leaving the middle classes to pick up the costs. dougslangandlit.blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/pitchforks-and-plutocrats.pdf |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 23, 2024 19:53:14 GMT
The UK has been obsessed with ( sometimes useless ) degrees instead of vocational skills.
We need plumbers, engineers , electricians, technicians etc instead of sending children to marxist Madrasas and saddling them with debt .
An educated ( not indoctrinated) and skilled work force would allow us to make stuff and build stuff .
That would be a start to closing the wealth gap.
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