|
Post by sandypine on Sept 24, 2024 12:08:39 GMT
Why you would think the thread is about NHS patient management is something of a mystery. Perhaps you missed the OP... Yes of course Brexit was 'supposed' to sort these things out, but with more than 70% of MP's and the entire left wing civil service being overtly pro EU, democracy never stood a chance. Regardless of the electorate, the establishment is firmly pro EU/pro immigration, which is great news for Farage and Reform UK. Fast tracking the patients who come along with interpreter bills and sending other patients to the back of the queue in order to accommodate them IS how they're managing patient loads, hence patient management. The civil service doesn't make legislation. Come off it. If your MPs are not to your liking, you know what to do, don't you? It is not patient management it is cost management. Patient management entails no consideration of the cost only what is best for the patient. The Triage process is to assess urgency of the condition and how urgently that patient should be seen.
|
|
|
Post by Ripley on Sept 24, 2024 13:20:53 GMT
According to a 2023 report by the Taxpayers Alliance, NHS Trusts spend £43 million on translation and interpreter services annually. Since less than two-thirds of the 240 Trusts responded to the FoI request, we can assume the actual total spend was rather larger. Of those trusts that did respond the average was £725,000. If the real total for the full NHS is nearer £60 million, that would be enough to pay for an additional 1,500 nurses. Nowadays at least part of that expense is unnecessary. Perhaps they need interpreters for more complex cases, but pocket translators can handle the routine cases, surely.
|
|
|
Post by Ripley on Sept 24, 2024 13:22:11 GMT
Fast tracking the patients who come along with interpreter bills and sending other patients to the back of the queue in order to accommodate them IS how they're managing patient loads, hence patient management. The civil service doesn't make legislation. Come off it. If your MPs are not to your liking, you know what to do, don't you? It is not patient management it is cost management. Patient management entails no consideration of the cost only what is best for the patient. The Triage process is to assess urgency of the condition and how urgently that patient should be seen. You're quite right. They are shuffling patients around so as to manage the costs better, but these costs are at least somewhat avoidable in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Sept 30, 2024 21:11:29 GMT
It's really a cost issue. The longer they keep these interpreters hanging about waiting, the more they are charged for their time. If the NHS could actually honour appointment times or stay within a reasonable, ie lower cost wait time, the problem wouldn't exist. But we all know how unlikely that is. The system needs a complete overhaul. I quite agree, it's a cost issue. The obvious answer is don't provide free bloody translators. English is an international language. More to the point How many free translators are there in France, Germany, Spain It's irrelevant that English is an 'international' language. The point is it's OUR bloody language. Speak it or fuck off. And that includes cottage burning scum.
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Sept 30, 2024 22:00:12 GMT
I quite agree, it's a cost issue. The obvious answer is don't provide free bloody translators. English is an international language. More to the point How many free translators are there in France, Germany, Spain It's irrelevant that English is an 'international' language. The point is it's OUR bloody language. Speak it or fuck off. And that includes cottage burning scum. I have experience of all three, although not in recent years. In Spain a friend needed medical assistance and it was serious enough for a doctor to be called. When the doctor arrived the language barrier was an immediate issue. Because we couldn't speak Spanish the doctor almost walked away until a passing Spanish woman who saw what was going on stepped in an acted as translator. The point being, the Spanish authorities do not provide interpreters and are unconcerned about it. I remember, few years ago now, this isn't medical. In France (I cant speak French btw) I attempted to get something sorted in a bank, because I couldn't speak French I was thrown out, not litterally, but I was escorted to the door. The attitude was, if you don't speak French fuck off. My son married a French girl and lives in France, he speaks fluent French but he says the French will not speak anything other than French and they don't care what anyone thinks about it. I lived in Germany for about 11 years, albeit in the army so not exactly as a civilian however, I found the Germans to be more forgiving than the French or Spanish. Probably half of young Germans spoke English and would happily speak English, however as the demographic got older the willingness to speak English was less obvious, and that was fine. I picked up German fairly quickly, I was never fluent but could scrape through a simple conversation. If that conversation was taking place in a pub which was often the case it's amazing how beer improved my German vocabulary.
|
|
|
Post by Ripley on Oct 1, 2024 0:21:40 GMT
More to the point How many free translators are there in France, Germany, Spain It's irrelevant that English is an 'international' language. The point is it's OUR bloody language. Speak it or fuck off. And that includes cottage burning scum. I have experience of all three, although not in recent years. In Spain a friend needed medical assistance and it was serious enough for a doctor to be called. When the doctor arrived the language barrier was an immediate issue. Because we couldn't speak Spanish the doctor almost walked away until a passing Spanish woman who saw what was going on stepped in an acted as translator. The point being, the Spanish authorities do not provide interpreters and are unconcerned about it. I remember, few years ago now, this isn't medical. In France (I cant speak French btw) I attempted to get something sorted in a bank, because I couldn't speak French I was thrown out, not litterally, but I was escorted to the door. The attitude was, if you don't speak French fuck off. My son married a French girl and lives in France, he speaks fluent French but he says the French will not speak anything other than French and they don't care what anyone thinks about it. I lived in Germany for about 11 years, albeit in the army so not exactly as a civilian however, I found the Germans to be more forgiving than the French or Spanish. Probably half of young Germans spoke English and would happily speak English, however as the demographic got older the willingness to speak English was less obvious, and that was fine. I picked up German fairly quickly, I was never fluent but could scrape through a simple conversation. If that conversation was taking place in a pub which was often the case it's amazing how beer improved my German vocabulary. I have had just the opposite experience with the French vs the Germans. The French have been nothing but good to me. If you make even a tiny effort to speak their language they will bend over backwards to accommodate you. You don't even have to get it right. You just have to make an effort. They hate being compelled to speak a foreign tongue in their own country because it reminds them of the German invasion they'd rather forget. In Germany I was completely ignored. In France, people were hospitable and kind. I realise it helps enormously that I'm a fluent French speaker, but I wasn't always. They were kind to me even when I had only high school French.
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Oct 1, 2024 0:38:48 GMT
I have experience of all three, although not in recent years. In Spain a friend needed medical assistance and it was serious enough for a doctor to be called. When the doctor arrived the language barrier was an immediate issue. Because we couldn't speak Spanish the doctor almost walked away until a passing Spanish woman who saw what was going on stepped in an acted as translator. The point being, the Spanish authorities do not provide interpreters and are unconcerned about it. I remember, few years ago now, this isn't medical. In France (I cant speak French btw) I attempted to get something sorted in a bank, because I couldn't speak French I was thrown out, not litterally, but I was escorted to the door. The attitude was, if you don't speak French fuck off. My son married a French girl and lives in France, he speaks fluent French but he says the French will not speak anything other than French and they don't care what anyone thinks about it. I lived in Germany for about 11 years, albeit in the army so not exactly as a civilian however, I found the Germans to be more forgiving than the French or Spanish. Probably half of young Germans spoke English and would happily speak English, however as the demographic got older the willingness to speak English was less obvious, and that was fine. I picked up German fairly quickly, I was never fluent but could scrape through a simple conversation. If that conversation was taking place in a pub which was often the case it's amazing how beer improved my German vocabulary. I have had just the opposite experience with the French vs the Germans. The French have been nothing but good to me. If you make even a tiny effort to speak their language they will bend over backwards to accommodate you. You don't even have to get it right. You just have to make an effort. They hate being compelled to speak a foreign tongue in their own country because it reminds them of the German invasion they'd rather forget. In Germany I was completely ignored. In France, people were hospitable and kind. I realise it helps enormously that I'm a fluent French speaker, but I wasn't always. They were kind to me even when I had only high school French. That was mine too, but I spoke french (badly) as a teenager and improved over time. I know you can find English speaking doctors in Spain when on holiday, because the clinics you attend when covered by your medical insurance to which your reps point you are private ... Try getting that when you are working there !!
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Oct 1, 2024 1:39:55 GMT
I have had just the opposite experience with the French vs the Germans. The French have been nothing but good to me. If you make even a tiny effort to speak their language they will bend over backwards to accommodate you. You don't even have to get it right. You just have to make an effort. They hate being compelled to speak a foreign tongue in their own country because it reminds them of the German invasion they'd rather forget. In Germany I was completely ignored. In France, people were hospitable and kind. I realise it helps enormously that I'm a fluent French speaker, but I wasn't always. They were kind to me even when I had only high school French. Well that's good for you, I'm pleased for you. I suppose it depends where in France you are, I am not well travelled in France, I've been a few times but I'm no Francophile, and of course that's because there was a language barrier. As I said previously, my son like you speaks fluent French, I never considered him to be a particularly gifted linguist but he married a French girl who couldn't speak English, and lives in France. Interpreters are not provided, in rural communities or communes, you speak the lingo or you're an outcast.
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on Oct 1, 2024 7:27:03 GMT
I dread to ask, but did you notice the OP? The NHS have admitted that English speaking patients are pushed to the back of the queue. In other words, non English speaking immigrants come before English people who have spent a lifetime paying for the NHS. Yay democracy. according to the DM lol Yes lefty you have a good laugh,but how long for? Those who have sat in Westminster for decades have created what we are seeing now and continue regardless. As Vinny quite rightly pointed out in a post yesterday about the elections in Austria which have seen what really is a far right party take the lead,not the fake ones they love to try and frighten with but a real type with people who have connections to what was the Nazi’s. And there’s more and more appearing across Europe and if you have to ask yourself why then you are monumentally stupid,we can and have absorbed migrants for centuries quite successfully but the numbers now are too much. Sit back smugly with your lol but there are some very unpleasant people out there,not the Farages of this world or the Rackhams they love to portray as far right but those who may well come to power by default and then you really would see the far right. Laugh away but the conditions that have caused all this have been created by an open border policy and a flat refusal to listen to ordinary reasonable people worried by what they see.
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Oct 1, 2024 7:28:42 GMT
I quite agree, it's a cost issue. The obvious answer is don't provide free bloody translators. English is an international language. It's irrelevant that English is an 'international' language. The point is it's OUR bloody language. Speak it or fuck off. And that includes cottage burning scum. you dont half talk some utter nonsense John for an educated man as ive told you many times before. English isnt " our" language. English is the language of the country known as england . The native language of "britian" is British , an older name for the language of your country Wales. Where are native welsh speakers , those you label cottage burners , supposed to fuck off to for speaking their own language in their own country and not the language of the English?
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Oct 1, 2024 7:33:54 GMT
I have had just the opposite experience with the French vs the Germans. The French have been nothing but good to me. If you make even a tiny effort to speak their language they will bend over backwards to accommodate you. You don't even have to get it right. You just have to make an effort. They hate being compelled to speak a foreign tongue in their own country because it reminds them of the German invasion they'd rather forget. In Germany I was completely ignored. In France, people were hospitable and kind. I realise it helps enormously that I'm a fluent French speaker, but I wasn't always. They were kind to me even when I had only high school French. Well that's good for you, I'm pleased for you. I suppose it depends where in France you are, I am not well travelled in France, I've been a few times but I'm no Francophile, and of course that's because there was a language barrier. As I said previously, my son like you speaks fluent French, I never considered him to be a particularly gifted linguist but he married a French girl who couldn't speak English, and lives in France. Interpreters are not provided, in rural communities or communes, you speak the lingo or you're an outcast. This of course is why I fail to understand the mentality of some ex-pats. And I do mean SOME As a tourist spending my disposable income to boost a country's otherwise shitty employment figures I expect the locals to understand me, or I bugger off elsewhere. In France I noticed the impact of the 'rosbif' bigotry by pure accident. I switch from English to french almost like an automatic timezone widget. In France my kids then not quite teens were in front of us gibbering away to each other and of course the metro ticket office jerk (they still had staff then, god knows if they do now, probably not) initiated the default 'awkward bastard' mode they always do / did with the English, only to be confronted by a rapid fire demand for tickets in his own tongue but with the accent of a Picardy Peasant. It quite threw him off his pedestal, I could see the cogs cranking thinking WTF. When Mrs JoG joined me you could almost see him click 'ah I see, local boy crosses channel to repeat the Viking raids of his forefathers'.... But it really did throw him off balance. He even stood up straightened his tie and almost bloody saluted. Bless you, France Telecom. Five grand for four weeks work and a chance to refresh the vocabulary !! Belgium is utterly different. The Flemish Belgians hate the bloody French. Staying there in the hotel near the EU Parliament almost everyone spoke perfect English and it was no surprise to any to see me perusing a copy of Le Monde. What I found wired was how easy it seemed to be to read Flemish if you read it in the accent of some mad rabid Scotsman. It seemed to translate rather well. Honest !! Anyway one evening some bloody bigot of a waitress on hearing the kids in English goes off on a rant about us English gits not stopping to think I understood every word. The woman running the place knew I would come and ask for a french newspaper with my after dinner coffee so SHE knew I knew what was going on and she initially looked quite worried ... Until a few hand signals from me suggesting she let this bitch rant and hang herself .... She really was worthy of Marine Le Pen's Dad's old Front Nationale. The longer it went on the more I feared the Maitre 'D would lose her straight face so I decided enough was enough. I came over to order coffee and asked if they had a newspaper. Cue this bigot telling me they were awfully sorry the only papers they had were French. 'Oh that's no problem' I said '"Le Monde" will be quite acceptable' and I picked it up, read the front page main story and immediately called out to my eldest 'oh dear, we will have to postpone the trip south, look, the Mont Blanc Tunnel is closed after an avalanche blocked it damaging several cars at one entrance.....' I pretty much translated that story and two others for Sarah, expressing the punctuation and so on as if using it to teach her the language, which to be fair, was exactly what I was doing. Three of the staff who knew my bilingual ability were wearing grins a foot wide at this point. T's fair to say they had all been keen to help Sarah with the language.... Bigot Bitch went bright red, sort of squeaked, sort of coughed and ran off. Didn't see her again. The staff were falling over themselves to apologise, I said don't, that was bloody good fun.... It was my uncle the Merchant Navy Chief Engineer who bought into a villa in El Capistrano with his fellow officers who taught me the advantages of speaking the local lingo. In his case all the thieving rats he had to deal with in port and on the ship spoke Arabic or Spanish and he spoke enough of both to get along. As he said, if you didn't, how the hell would you know what their next scam was. And that's why I simply cannot understand ex-pats who don't speak the local language. How the hell do they Sus the stunt the plumber is pulling right in front of them .......
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Oct 1, 2024 7:35:05 GMT
I have had just the opposite experience with the French vs the Germans. The French have been nothing but good to me. If you make even a tiny effort to speak their language they will bend over backwards to accommodate you. You don't even have to get it right. You just have to make an effort. They hate being compelled to speak a foreign tongue in their own country because it reminds them of the German invasion they'd rather forget. In Germany I was completely ignored. In France, people were hospitable and kind. I realise it helps enormously that I'm a fluent French speaker, but I wasn't always. They were kind to me even when I had only high school French. Well that's good for you, I'm pleased for you. I suppose it depends where in France you are, I am not well travelled in France, I've been a few times but I'm no Francophile, and of course that's because there was a language barrier. As I said previously, my son like you speaks fluent French, I never considered him to be a particularly gifted linguist but he married a French girl who couldn't speak English, and lives in France. Interpreters are not provided, in rural communities or communes, you speak the lingo or you're an outcast. You are letting your anti French anglo sentiment show red , while throwing in a caveat about your son to defend your distaste for the French. Im with Ripley. Never been to Germany , so cant comment , although my daughter is a fluent German speaker , but ive travelled France for decades , and like any country , the French make the effort with you if you make the effort with them. Many French folk I come across are multi lingual. You have the native Basque language in south west France , the Breton language in the north west , many northern French speak flemish , eastern French German , and in the south east Italian is common in the alps. France , like England and elsewhere , is a multi lingual country , but of course the French state are overly protective and push their language. Why shouldn't they? Its not an either or situation , multilingualism is common , probably more so than the English speaking world . .......by the way red , you are speaking a language , "English" which is a total misnomer , which is half French.
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Oct 1, 2024 7:37:41 GMT
Well that's good for you, I'm pleased for you. I suppose it depends where in France you are, I am not well travelled in France, I've been a few times but I'm no Francophile, and of course that's because there was a language barrier. As I said previously, my son like you speaks fluent French, I never considered him to be a particularly gifted linguist but he married a French girl who couldn't speak English, and lives in France. Interpreters are not provided, in rural communities or communes, you speak the lingo or you're an outcast. And that's why I simply cannot understand ex-pats who don't speak the local language. How the hell do they Sus the stunt the plumber is pulling right in front of them ....... The English are famous as migrants for not learning the local language. I mean dordogne in France , and the south of Spain are well known for it. I think it's largely down to laziness , as American English is the economic language of the world . Ive noticed a hell of a change in France over the years with many young French kids being fluent in English .
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Oct 1, 2024 10:24:38 GMT
It's irrelevant that English is an 'international' language. The point is it's OUR bloody language. Speak it or fuck off. And that includes cottage burning scum. you dont half talk some utter nonsense John for an educated man as ive told you many times before. English isnt " our" language. English is the language of the country known as england . The native language of "britian" is British , an older name for the language of your country Wales. Where are native welsh speakers , those you label cottage burners , supposed to fuck off to for speaking their own language in their own country and not the language of the English? I’m speaking as the victorious invader … Well strictly, the mongrel offspring of the victorious invader who took advantage of the diversion organised by Adolf to nip across the border and nick one of their women. A trick i repeated myself. If they wish to attempt a rematch of 700 AD or thereabouts i’m all for it, the castor bean plants are really growing quite well along with the lupins and foxglove….
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Oct 1, 2024 13:41:48 GMT
you dont half talk some utter nonsense John for an educated man as ive told you many times before. English isnt " our" language. English is the language of the country known as england . The native language of "britian" is British , an older name for the language of your country Wales. Where are native welsh speakers , those you label cottage burners , supposed to fuck off to for speaking their own language in their own country and not the language of the English? I’m speaking as the victorious invader … . No. You aren't. My welsh and English history can be a bit sketchy , but as I understand it , the "victorious invader" of Wales was the Norman French , not the English , who themselves at the time were nothing more than a conquered nation whose language was to disappear. So therefore why aren't you speaking in French? To go. back to my earlier point , you want to be British , but dont want to speak British . Very strange. Shouldn't the cottage burners be telling you to fuck off to another country if you dont want to speak the native language of your grandmother?
|
|