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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 27, 2024 6:46:51 GMT
Indeed, also, I'm sure Starmer will privately take no comfort in the fact that he won the election with 34% of the vote, and in 2019 Corbyn lost with 40% of the vote. In other words, Corbyn was more popular than Starmer. The opposition will take comfort in the fact that it wouldn’t take too many disappointed voters to turn the vote around at the next election . That's why we need an effective opposition capable of presenting an alternative to Labour when they fail. If the Tories don't learn the lessons on why they suffered their worst ever defeat they won't make a very effective opposition. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 27, 2024 6:52:23 GMT
So what about the other 73%? And where is your evidence that any of the votes they lost in any direction had nothing to do with the factors I listed? In order to win a majority of 1 at the next GE the Tories are going to have to pull off a record breaking swing, they aren't going to do that just by appealing to their base. I'm not saying that they would have not lost so much support if they had been more left wing, I think they were screwed regardless for the reasons I've already listed. I'm saying that a more right version of the clown car that just suffered a record defeat isn't going to get them back into power. A little humility and actually listening to voters concerns like Starmer did when he first became Labour leader would be a good start. People laughed when he did those virtual town halls, whose laughing now? Which part of 80% of the electorate did not vote labour do you not understand? The Tory party shed votes because much of the traditional support either voted Reform or stayed at home, they didn't switch to labour You lost, get over it. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 27, 2024 6:53:41 GMT
Exactly - that is why their core vote failed to support them. After 14 years of talk they had just had enough. The cost of living crisis was precipitated by high energy prices - which were due to the government failing to access UK energy and pursuing expensive renewables instead. You just continually highlight why the Government for the past 14 years were not conservatives.. There were a number of reasons for climbing energy costs including the war in Ukraine. Another factor in the cost of living was people's mortgages going up thanks to Liz Truss pursuing right wing policies. We were impacted by the war in Ukraine because we were not self sufficient in energy production. The view was that instead of using the gas beneath our feet it was 'greener' to import it from thousands of miles away and pay world market prices. We have more than enough fossil fuel of our own, that we import it is a political decision. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 27, 2024 6:56:57 GMT
In fact I think ALL MPs should have to held a real word job BEFORE being eligible to stand as an MP.
I'd agree with this provided that real world job is paid and in the private sector for a minimum of 5 years Well I disagree with the Private Sector exclusivity. I would suggest anyone wanting to be Health Minister should have worked in the NHS, anyone wanting to be Home Secretary should have worked in the Police or Courts system etc. In fact given MPs are spending, exclusively, Public Money they real should have some experience of the Public Sector. Wouldnt that lead to the kind of 'groupthink' that the Covid enquiry declared was a major problem in our response to the pandemic. If you spend your working life in the NHS you are hardly likely to be willing to look at any radical changes to improve the service. You would simply keep saying give us more money. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 27, 2024 7:27:25 GMT
Well I disagree with the Private Sector exclusivity. I would suggest anyone wanting to be Health Minister should have worked in the NHS, anyone wanting to be Home Secretary should have worked in the Police or Courts system etc. In fact given MPs are spending, exclusively, Public Money they real should have some experience of the Public Sector. Wouldnt that lead to the kind of 'groupthink' that the Covid enquiry declared was a major problem in our response to the pandemic. If you spend your working life in the NHS you are hardly likely to be willing to look at any radical changes to improve the service. You would simply keep saying give us more money. Sorry, but I don't follow your reasoning. Who wouldn't want to see conditions in their own workplace improve? |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 27, 2024 7:28:46 GMT
There were a number of reasons for climbing energy costs including the war in Ukraine. Another factor in the cost of living was people's mortgages going up thanks to Liz Truss pursuing right wing policies. We were impacted by the war in Ukraine because we were not self sufficient in energy production. The view was that instead of using the gas beneath our feet it was 'greener' to import it from thousands of miles away and pay world market prices. We have more than enough fossil fuel of our own, that we import it is a political decision. Energy independence was a Labour policy wasn't it? |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 27, 2024 7:40:57 GMT
We were impacted by the war in Ukraine because we were not self sufficient in energy production. The view was that instead of using the gas beneath our feet it was 'greener' to import it from thousands of miles away and pay world market prices. We have more than enough fossil fuel of our own, that we import it is a political decision. Energy independence was a Labour policy wasn't it? Was it? - by who?. Ed Milliband wants to stop us being dependent on volatile foreign energy supplies by being dependent on the vagaries of the weather. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 27, 2024 7:42:22 GMT
Wouldnt that lead to the kind of 'groupthink' that the Covid enquiry declared was a major problem in our response to the pandemic. If you spend your working life in the NHS you are hardly likely to be willing to look at any radical changes to improve the service. You would simply keep saying give us more money. Sorry, but I don't follow your reasoning. Who wouldn't want to see conditions in their own workplace improve? How are you going to improve conditions? - if the best way is to privatise a particular service are you really expecting NHS workers to promote that? |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 27, 2024 7:53:47 GMT
Exactly - that is why their core vote failed to support them. After 14 years of talk they had just had enough. The cost of living crisis was precipitated by high energy prices - which were due to the government failing to access UK energy and pursuing expensive renewables instead. You just continually highlight why the Government for the past 14 years were not conservatives.. There were a number of reasons for climbing energy costs including the war in Ukraine. Another factor in the cost of living was people's mortgages going up thanks to Liz Truss pursuing right wing policies.Another factor in the constant rise in the cost of housing is this country's utterly broken Housing Market, both housing for rent and purchase. The UK is just about hardest country in the world to find affordable housing in; because average wages have lagged so far behind average house prices for decades. The entire Housing Market is a rigged game, designed to vastly over-inflate the cost of housing so as to always provide a boost to the economy. It hides the fact that our senior business and industry leaders have underinvested for decades and our GDP is significantly lower than any other comparable economy. The Tories have always liked to blame low GDP on too much regulation, too many workers swinging the lead, etc; when the real cause is systemic under-investment, systemic over-paying of dividends, and systemic old-school-tie incompetence at the senior executive level. All The Best |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 27, 2024 7:57:11 GMT
Sorry, but I don't follow your reasoning. Who wouldn't want to see conditions in their own workplace improve? How are you going to improve conditions? - if the best way is to privatise a particular service are you really expecting NHS workers to promote that? I don't claim to have the answers to improving the NHS but the idea that people working in the NHS would instinctively opposed improvements in their working conditions is plainly illogical to me. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 27, 2024 7:59:09 GMT
Energy independence was a Labour policy wasn't it? Was it? - by who?. Ed Milliband wants to stop us being dependent on volatile foreign energy supplies by being dependent on the vagaries of the weather. "We will invest in carbon capture and storage, hydrogen and marine energy, and ensure we have the long-term energy storage our country needs. A new Energy Independence Act will establish the framework for Labour's energy and climate policies." labour.org.uk/change/make-britain-a-clean-energy-superpower/#:~:text=Clean%20power%20by%202030,-Families%20and%20businesses&text=We%20will%20invest%20in%20carbon,Labour's%20energy%20and%20climate%20policies. Energy independence is not an exclusively right wing policy. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 27, 2024 8:01:42 GMT
There were a number of reasons for climbing energy costs including the war in Ukraine. Another factor in the cost of living was people's mortgages going up thanks to Liz Truss pursuing right wing policies. We were impacted by the war in Ukraine because we were not self sufficient in energy production. The view was that instead of using the gas beneath our feet it was 'greener' to import it from thousands of miles away and pay world market prices. We have more than enough fossil fuel of our own, that we import it is a political decision. But if we ant to leave a planet that is life-supporting to our children, and their children then we can't really use that fossil fuel. We are not energy self sufficient because our energy sector was sold off to private investors who have leeched unsustainable dividends out of the system, rather than investing in sustainable energy for the future. The same is true of our water sector. The real elephant in the room, that no politician has dared yet approach - but will have to sooner rather than later, is that obtain the Energy Security, and Food Security we need this country is significantly over-populated. We were Energy Self Sufficient in that late 70's thru to the mid 80's. Then the impacts of Thatcher's delusional mass sell off of the sector started to kick in. As did the Private Sector lobbying for ever more immigrant workers to avoid the cost of training their own workers. The rest is History. Almost every major ill that befalls this country currently can be traced back to Private Sector Greed and the lobbying they have employed to ensure that greed is protected. We do not need less Private Sector regulation and oversight - we need MORE. All The Best |
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Post by ratcliff on Jul 27, 2024 11:04:55 GMT
In fact I think ALL MPs should have to held a real word job BEFORE being eligible to stand as an MP.
I'd agree with this provided that real world job is paid and in the private sector for a minimum of 5 years Well I disagree with the Private Sector exclusivity. I would suggest anyone wanting to be Health Minister should have worked in the NHS, anyone wanting to be Home Secretary should have worked in the Police or Courts system etc. In fact given MPs are spending, exclusively, Public Money they real should have some experience of the Public Sector. Of course, the Private Sector has a role to play, and I would suggest that 5 years in that sector is appropriate for the Business Secretary. There's this notion that the Private Sector, understanding it, and appeasing it, is the answer to all our problems. Nothing could be further from the truth. Look at all three major issues in the UK right now: all of them stem from the Private Sector. Cost Of Living: Private Sector Greed Housing Market: Private Sector Greed. Immigration: Private Sector Greed. I'll also remind you that the last Tory PM worked exclusively in the Private Sector prior to his foray into Politics, as did Liz Truss, as did Kwasi Kwarteng. Did so well out of that Private Sector experience, didn't we? All The Best No, working in the public sector ( civil servants/quangos/ politics etc ) is detached from reality , there's a magic money tree for every project and very little accountability to make it work , ensure that funding is available, constant empire building , a complete lack of appreciation hat the ''customer'' should receive good service at all times - not be treated as an inconvenience or the lack of risk of being fired for incompetence . The private sector is the sole funder of government spending - it should hold the whip hand The rest of your post is ignored as being standard MO of lefty ranting and ignorance of life without daily handholding by an overspending nanny state . |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 27, 2024 11:14:08 GMT
There were a number of reasons for climbing energy costs including the war in Ukraine. Another factor in the cost of living was people's mortgages going up thanks to Liz Truss pursuing right wing policies.Another factor in the constant rise in the cost of housing is this country's utterly broken Housing Market, both housing for rent and purchase. The UK is just about hardest country in the world to find affordable housing in; because average wages have lagged so far behind average house prices for decades. The entire Housing Market is a rigged game, designed to vastly over-inflate the cost of housing so as to always provide a boost to the economy. It hides the fact that our senior business and industry leaders have underinvested for decades and our GDP is significantly lower than any other comparable economy. The Tories have always liked to blame low GDP on too much regulation, too many workers swinging the lead, etc; when the real cause is systemic under-investment, systemic over-paying of dividends, and systemic old-school-tie incompetence at the senior executive level. Europe is the slowest growing economic bloc on the planet as well as the most regulated. Perhaps there might be a connection? |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 27, 2024 12:44:27 GMT
Another factor in the constant rise in the cost of housing is this country's utterly broken Housing Market, both housing for rent and purchase. The UK is just about hardest country in the world to find affordable housing in; because average wages have lagged so far behind average house prices for decades. The entire Housing Market is a rigged game, designed to vastly over-inflate the cost of housing so as to always provide a boost to the economy. It hides the fact that our senior business and industry leaders have underinvested for decades and our GDP is significantly lower than any other comparable economy. The Tories have always liked to blame low GDP on too much regulation, too many workers swinging the lead, etc; when the real cause is systemic under-investment, systemic over-paying of dividends, and systemic old-school-tie incompetence at the senior executive level. Europe is the slowest growing economic bloc on the planet as well as the most regulated. Perhaps there might be a connection? But still has higher GDP/C than us. UK: $33,271 EU: $37,610 Most notably, Ireland has a GDP/C almost three times higher than the UK at $95,290. It is only because of the low GDP/C of Bulgaria $14k, Romania $17k, and other former Soviet Satellite States that the EU average is not way better than ours. In fact if were we to be in the EU right now our GDP/C would only just barely drag us out of the bottom half of EU States. You are right, there is a connection; just not the one you want. All The Best |
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