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Post by Bentley on Jul 26, 2024 11:54:22 GMT
If Labour do a wonderful job in the next year then any opposition on the political spectrum will have trouble defeating them .
If they don’t , an alternative party will be needed to take a different path . That will be a party further to the right.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 26, 2024 12:11:57 GMT
I see Mel Stride has thrown his hat into the ring. He's a centrist conservative who openly says the party must not move to the centre right, so as far as he is concerned the party must not change. Incredible.
As far as party members are concerned Suella is by far the most popular candidate for leader, unfortunately liberal centrist Tories are unlikely to pick her, which I suppose is good news for Farage and Reform UK.
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 26, 2024 12:20:58 GMT
Their failures caused them not to vote Conservative, the Tories moving further to the right wouldn't have eliminated those policy failures. Reducing legal and illegal immigration, cheaper energy and ending the Lefts culture wars would not have eliminated their failures in those areas? - are you sure? The obsession with culture war side issues (at best) instead of things like the cost of living crisis is one of the things that marked them out as out of touch. I don't think a few less rainbow flags would have made people forget they're still paying hundreds of pounds out in mortgage payments every month thanks to Truss. Is reducing energy bills an exclusively right wing policy? Or reducing immigration for that matter, both the Tories and Labour have talked about this. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 26, 2024 12:23:45 GMT
According to your figures posted earlier in this thread 2019 Tory voters who were polled 18% voted Reform or didn't vote at all is that correct? yes - so who should they have voted for? So less than 18% of their 2019 votes went to the right of them? And we have no way of knowing what their motives were. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 26, 2024 12:26:09 GMT
If Labour do a wonderful job in the next year then any opposition on the political spectrum will have trouble defeating them . If they don’t , an alternative party will be needed to take a different path . That will be a party further to the right. Why does it have to be? When the public finally lost patience with the Conservatives in 1997 it was a centrist Labour party who replaced them. When the public finally lost patience with Labour in 2010 it was a centrist Conservative party who replaced them. When the public finally lost patience with the Conservatives in 2024 it was a centrist Labour party who replaced them. |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 26, 2024 12:41:14 GMT
If Labour do a wonderful job in the next year then any opposition on the political spectrum will have trouble defeating them . If they don’t , an alternative party will be needed to take a different path . That will be a party further to the right. Why does it have to be? When the public finally lost patience with the Conservatives in 1997 it was a centrist Labour party who replaced them. When the public finally lost patience with Labour in 2010 it was a centrist Conservative party who replaced them. When the public finally lost patience with the Conservatives in 2024 it was a centrist Labour party who replaced them. It doesn’t HAVE to be it might be a Monster Raving Loony party or Fundamentalist Islamist coalition with the Green Party . Where did I say it had to be? |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 26, 2024 12:48:59 GMT
Why does it have to be? When the public finally lost patience with the Conservatives in 1997 it was a centrist Labour party who replaced them. When the public finally lost patience with Labour in 2010 it was a centrist Conservative party who replaced them. When the public finally lost patience with the Conservatives in 2024 it was a centrist Labour party who replaced them. It doesn’t HAVE to be it might be a Monster Raving Loony party or Fundamentalist Islamist coalition with the Green Party . Where did I say it had to be? You said that it will be a party to the right. |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 26, 2024 12:50:47 GMT
It doesn’t HAVE to be it might be a Monster Raving Loony party or Fundamentalist Islamist coalition with the Green Party . Where did I say it had to be? You said that it will be a party to the right. I said it would be further to the right . |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 26, 2024 14:31:21 GMT
I see Mel Stride has thrown his hat into the ring. He's a centrist conservative who openly says the party must not move to the centre right, so as far as he is concerned the party must not change. Incredible. As far as party members are concerned Suella is by far the most popular candidate for leader, unfortunately liberal centrist Tories are unlikely to pick her, which I suppose is good news for Farage and Reform UK. They want to compete head on with Labour for the middle ground, or what they imagine to be middle in their perverse minds.
Economically that means not giving unions greater power, trying to run a responsible budget and going more woke.
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 26, 2024 14:35:54 GMT
You said that it will be a party to the right. I said it would be further to the right . To the right of Labour you mean? Well yes you'd expect any Conservative party to be to the right of Labour. But will it be to the right of the current Conservative party? |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 26, 2024 14:36:38 GMT
I see Mel Stride has thrown his hat into the ring. He's a centrist conservative who openly says the party must not move to the centre right, so as far as he is concerned the party must not change. Incredible. As far as party members are concerned Suella is by far the most popular candidate for leader, unfortunately liberal centrist Tories are unlikely to pick her, which I suppose is good news for Farage and Reform UK. They want to compete head on with Labour for the middle ground, or what they imagine to be middle in their perverse minds.
Economically that means not giving unions greater power, trying to run a responsible budget and going more woke.
The middle ground is where elections tend to be won in the UK. |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 26, 2024 14:42:56 GMT
I said it would be further to the right . To the right of Labour you mean? Well yes you'd expect any Conservative party to be to the right of Labour. But will it be to the right of the current Conservative party? As the government is Labour it would have to be right of Labour . It wouldn’t right of the Lib Dems . The ruling Tory party produced much right wing rhetoric but didn't follow it up…as explained to you several times . |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 26, 2024 14:43:23 GMT
I see Mel Stride has thrown his hat into the ring. He's a centrist conservative who openly says the party must not move to the centre right, so as far as he is concerned the party must not change. Incredible. As far as party members are concerned Suella is by far the most popular candidate for leader, unfortunately liberal centrist Tories are unlikely to pick her, which I suppose is good news for Farage and Reform UK. They want to compete head on with Labour for the middle ground, or what they imagine to be middle in their perverse minds.
Economically that means not giving unions greater power, trying to run a responsible budget and going more woke.
They're pillocks. And you can quote me lol. Sooner or later the centrists and wets will realise that to win the next election the Tories have to be different to Labour not the same as Labour. If the Tories choose a leader like Mel Stride, or any of the other front runners for that matter, they wont last until the next election that's an absolute racing certainty. If the Tories don't move to the centre right they will continue to lose support to Reform UK. As yet I don't think they have quite grasped what sort of a threat Farage poses. But they will. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 26, 2024 14:49:33 GMT
To the right of Labour you mean? Well yes you'd expect any Conservative party to be to the right of Labour. But will it be to the right of the current Conservative party? As the government is Labour it would have to be right of Labour . It wouldn’t right of the Lib Dems . The ruling Tory party produced much right wing rhetoric but didn't follow it up…as explained to you several times . Yes I said you would expect them to be to the right of Labour. But would they need to be to the right of the current Tory party. Like I say history would suggest otherwise, the British electorate traditionally rejects extremes of both right and left. |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 26, 2024 14:54:13 GMT
As the government is Labour it would have to be right of Labour . It wouldn’t right of the Lib Dems . The ruling Tory party produced much right wing rhetoric but didn't follow it up…as explained to you several times . Yes I said you would expect them to be to the right of Labour. But would they need to be to the right of the current Tory party. Like I say history would suggest otherwise, the British electorate traditionally rejects extremes of both right and left. The ruling Tory party were not right wing Ill repeat this in the vain hope that it stays in your head “The ruling Tory party produced much right wing rhetoric but didn't follow it up…as explained to you several times .” |
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