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Post by om15 on Oct 11, 2022 7:08:07 GMT
As many Tory voters look on with despair at the current Government and its inability to form a unified Party, Richard Tice has pledged to put up 600 candidates at the next election. Do we think that he is a force to be reckoned with, or is Reform just another breakaway party that will not get off the ground?
He talks a good job, but I haven't yet seen any policies other than total Brexit with no quarter. Is it time for the Tories to hand over to Labour, regroup and get a proper leader and then take over whatever mess is left in five years time?
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Post by Steve on Oct 11, 2022 9:21:34 GMT
Doomed to failure.
Hasn't got a flair leader (which Farage was), hasn't got a sufficiently unifying cause (that Brexit was), doomed by the undemocratic first past the post system and hasn't got the pseudo PR European elections that enabled UKIP to get serious attention. No tears from me about that party but the system that gives their voice no chance is very wrong
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Post by Handyman on Oct 11, 2022 10:46:19 GMT
As many Tory voters look on with despair at the current Government and its inability to form a unified Party, Richard Tice has pledged to put up 600 candidates at the next election. Do we think that he is a force to be reckoned with, or is Reform just another breakaway party that will not get off the ground? He talks a good job, but I haven't yet seen any policies other than total Brexit with no quarter. Is it time for the Tories to hand over to Labour, regroup and get a proper leader and then take over whatever mess is left in five years time? Why would any Party in power simply hand over power to their political opponents it is not logical, it could also IMO be totally undemocratic and those who did support them enough to vote them into power would probably think why bother voting for them ever again. Truss has hardly got her feet under the table as they say a week in Politics is a long time, the next GE is not scheduled until January 2025, Truss provided her own Party does not do her legs before the end on this year has until then to turn things around and get the country back on an even keel, earliest she could possibly call it would be May 2014. As for Policies from the Reform Party far too early to announce them, why show your cards now way to early you wait until the time is right
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Post by om15 on Oct 11, 2022 11:55:05 GMT
That unfortunately can't be taken for granted, my MP should not really be in the Tory Party, he is more Lib Dem if anything, he voted Remain, was a big supporter of Mrs May, he wrote hugely anti Boris stuff in local magazines, supported Sunak and now he is anti Truss, he can't be trusted to just shut up and support his own Government, after 52 years of voting Tory I most certainly will not be voting for him next time round.
Sort of leaves me with a problem as I don't think the Monster Raving Lunatic Party have a candidate in my constituency.
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Post by Toreador on Oct 12, 2022 7:08:25 GMT
Doomed to failure. Hasn't got a flair leader (which Farage was), hasn't got a sufficiently unifying cause (that Brexit was), doomed by the undemocratic first past the post system and hasn't got the pseudo PR European elections that enabled UKIP to get serious attention. No tears from me about that party but the system that gives their voice no chance is very wrong I agree, Tice is a nice guy without enough fire in his belly to be a leader. He got where he is by part bankrolling Reform UK. I think Farage would be seriously working on making mincemeat of the established parties and it may be that Tice is waiting for the right moment to make an impact. I no longer follow them or offer any support and IMO they should be making considerable inroads in British politics bearing in mind the current state of politics. I don't know whether they have the same supporters or potential candidates as under Farage but I know that withdrawing candidates to give the Tories a clear run at the last election was a horrible mistake in terms of maintaining the support of those candidates and their canvassers who were all set to do their job but were denied by that decision; I was all prepared up to support two candidates, both of whom were withdrawn and though there were others needing support, I never knew them and therefore wouldn't offer my help at such short notice. That said, there were some good candidates, including women, and good material, tainted by publicity as rightwing and even far right who were nothing of the sort, some were previously Labour supporters If they don't make any sort of impact at the next general election I cant see them making any serious impression on British politics but if I thought they were going in the right direction, I'd offer my help.
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Post by Handyman on Oct 12, 2022 7:47:00 GMT
That unfortunately can't be taken for granted, my MP should not really be in the Tory Party, he is more Lib Dem if anything, he voted Remain, was a big supporter of Mrs May, he wrote hugely anti Boris stuff in local magazines, supported Sunak and now he is anti Truss, he can't be trusted to just shut up and support his own Government, after 52 years of voting Tory I most certainly will not be voting for him next time round. Sort of leaves me with a problem as I don't think the Monster Raving Lunatic Party have a candidate in my constituency. Your MP obviously chose to stand as a Tory candidate and won voted in by people in your constituency, if you did not vote for him or did and you are not happy with his/her performance and others feel the same way don't vote for him/her again Politics is a rather dirty game no matter what, they have difference of opinions constantly they want the next step up right across the board, have you ever liked all the people you have worked alongside, I know I haven't I have got to the stage where I not really trust any of them, Labour, fill me with dread failed every time, Liberals too weak, as for the Tories best of a very bad bunch, I may not vote at the next election first time ever in 50 years
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Post by stardoman on Oct 13, 2022 12:03:13 GMT
I feel homeless with regards to political parties. I've nearly always voted Tory, though I have voted both Labour and UKIP at various times. At this present time I can't see me voting Tory or Labour. I don't like all this smearing of politicians and the chants of "Tory Scum". I didn't like the way Boris was ousted. Obviously I'll wait till nearer the time but I'm seriously considering spoiling my ballot paper.
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Post by Steve on Oct 13, 2022 12:23:06 GMT
I feel homeless with regards to political parties. I've nearly always voted Tory, though I have voted both Labour and UKIP at various times. At this present time I can't see me voting Tory or Labour. I don't like all this smearing of politicians and the chants of "Tory Scum". I didn't like the way Boris was ousted. Obviously I'll wait till nearer the time but I'm seriously considering spoiling my ballot paper. Like me you're a floating voter then Think of it this way: floating voters have all the power
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 13, 2022 12:54:42 GMT
I wouldn't write off Reform UK just yet. I seem to remember people and indeed politicians laughing at UKIP. Reform UK is as yet a relatively unknown quantity, but I think it will slowly gain traction due to people, mainly Conservatives, becoming increasingly frustrated with the political status quo. For example, I just heard that behind the scenes there are serious moves afoot to remove Liz Truss as prime minister! I mean, you really couldn't make it up. The Conservatives seem hell bent on destroying themselves, and that will only benefit Reform UK.
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Post by Handyman on Oct 13, 2022 12:56:38 GMT
I feel homeless with regards to political parties. I've nearly always voted Tory, though I have voted both Labour and UKIP at various times. At this present time I can't see me voting Tory or Labour. I don't like all this smearing of politicians and the chants of "Tory Scum". I didn't like the way Boris was ousted. Obviously I'll wait till nearer the time but I'm seriously considering spoiling my ballot paper. If you spoil your Ballot Paper nobody will know why or care, they just count them and that is it
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2022 13:27:43 GMT
I feel homeless with regards to political parties. I've nearly always voted Tory, though I have voted both Labour and UKIP at various times. At this present time I can't see me voting Tory or Labour. I don't like all this smearing of politicians and the chants of "Tory Scum". I didn't like the way Boris was ousted. Obviously I'll wait till nearer the time but I'm seriously considering spoiling my ballot paper. If you spoil your Ballot Paper nobody will know why or care, they just count them and that is it I've been involved in counting the votes. Each spoilt ballot is carefully examined and scrutinised to ensure that it cannot be attributed to one of the candidates. If some "guidance for government" is written thereon, it will be seen.
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Post by Toreador on Oct 13, 2022 14:34:11 GMT
I feel homeless with regards to political parties. I've nearly always voted Tory, though I have voted both Labour and UKIP at various times. At this present time I can't see me voting Tory or Labour. I don't like all this smearing of politicians and the chants of "Tory Scum". I didn't like the way Boris was ousted. Obviously I'll wait till nearer the time but I'm seriously considering spoiling my ballot paper. If you spoil your Ballot Paper nobody will know why or care, they just count them and that is it Based on the current opinion polls, those supporters of the Tories could transfer to Reform UK and still not be sufficient to defeat Labour based on its current approval rate.
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Post by Orac on Oct 13, 2022 15:06:57 GMT
In the last election many former Labour voters decided to switch allegiance and vote tory. I wouldn't count on that Labour support being particularly sturdy. If a party began to get substantial traction and was clear about reducing immigration, it is quite possible many former labour voters would switch allegiance. More broadly, it seems to me that both sides voting away from their traditional allegiances on a common third party, is the only way this bizarre policy deadlock can be overwhelmed.
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Post by Toreador on Oct 13, 2022 15:24:02 GMT
In the last election many former Labour voters decided to switch allegiance and vote tory. I wouldn't count on that Labour support being particularly sturdy. If a party began to get substantial traction and was clear about reducing immigration, it is quite possible many former labour voters would switch allegiance. More broadly, it seems to me that both sides voting away from their traditional allegiances on a common third party, is the only way this bizarre policy deadlock can be overwhelmed. I've dealt with this, above. Tice and Farage withdrew candidates in constituencies which the Tories were in danger of losing, this had several effects. One was in demoralising those candidates who wanted to fight an election at the same time as giving any opposition the frights together with gauging how well the Reform party had fared and to show the other parties that Reform UK might be a threat in the future. I was supporting two candidates up in the northern part of Lincolnshire, both were withdrawn and in one case it was silliness since the Tory stood no chance of losing but it would have been nice to perhaps see him embarrassed by a respectable Reform showing; they're now having to start again.
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Post by Steve on Oct 13, 2022 19:33:32 GMT
I feel homeless with regards to political parties. I've nearly always voted Tory, though I have voted both Labour and UKIP at various times. At this present time I can't see me voting Tory or Labour. I don't like all this smearing of politicians and the chants of "Tory Scum". I didn't like the way Boris was ousted. Obviously I'll wait till nearer the time but I'm seriously considering spoiling my ballot paper. If you spoil your Ballot Paper nobody will know why or care, they just count them and that is it So if one election 20% of the ballots were spoilt with 'Fuck this first past the post system' (or some such) written on them you think nothing would happen? Of curse it would. It's those millions that can't be bothered to vote that no one cares about
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