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Post by Handyman on Oct 14, 2022 14:23:31 GMT
There's no appetite for a left wing Labour government in this country. Yes Labour will always have supporters but not enough to give them outright victory in a general election. Left wing Labour politicians on picket lines and demanding that 'refugees' from France should be welcomed in this country, is not a good look, and although Starmer says he's changed, people will never forget that for three years after the referendum he fought tooth & nail to keep this country in the EU and for a second referendum and come the next general election, I'm sure the Tory publicity machine will make the most of it. I wish that was true Red, we now have a new generation who are now eligible to vote that have never lived under a Labour Government which is why Labour led by Blair won that GE, in addition to that the Politically motivated teachers have taught them to hate the Tories, one only has to look what is happening on our University Campuses and the attack on Freedom of Speach and Debate taking place |
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 14, 2022 14:24:20 GMT
Talk me through the benefits of clear majority government, steve Bluntly, with a majority government it's easier to get business done and pass bills. With a minority or coalition government it can take a long time to get business done and passing bills is a slow process because all sides have to be satisfied. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 14, 2022 14:39:09 GMT
There's no appetite for a left wing Labour government in this country. Yes Labour will always have supporters but not enough to give them outright victory in a general election. Left wing Labour politicians on picket lines and demanding that 'refugees' from France should be welcomed in this country, is not a good look, and although Starmer says he's changed, people will never forget that for three years after the referendum he fought tooth & nail to keep this country in the EU and for a second referendum and come the next general election, I'm sure the Tory publicity machine will make the most of it. I wish that was true Red, we now have a new generation who are now eligible to vote that have never lived under a Labour Government which is why Labour led by Blair won that GE, in addition to that the Politically motivated teachers have taught them to hate the Tories, one only has to look what is happening on our University Campuses and the attack on Freedom of Speach and Debate taking place Yes, fair enough. But, yes there's always a 'but' lol, Blair was a left wing Tory which is why he was the most successful Labour prime minister in the history of the party. Starmer is undoubtedly a pro EU left wing socialist, of course he doesn't talk about it at the moment because he knows it's not a vote winner but look at Starmers front bench, you will not find a bigger bunch of left wing woke socialists anywhere, and the thing is they're proud of it. Remember what Lisa Nandy said about Joe Biden; " He is a really woke guy and someone the Labour party can look up to" And of course schools and universities are left wing, but that's nothing new is it. They have been left wing since at least the 1960's. To be honest, I imagine come the next election many people will look at the Tories, then look at Labour, and in despair as a protest vote perhaps, vote for Reform UK. |
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baff
Junior Member
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Post by baff on Oct 14, 2022 14:41:35 GMT
Essentially Truss and Reform share the same views. Farage couldn’t praise the failed minibudget enough. The ideas have crashed and burned at first contact with the real world. Hard to see Reform ever winning a seat under FPTP but they speak for a small subsection of the electorate and deserve a voice if they can cross a threshold - say 5%. I think the case for PR is becoming more and more compelling. I'm not convinced. Truss's only support in the Conservative party is the right wing of it. She's telling them what they want to hear. But she has no ability to deliver it. And no track record of voting for it. Quite the opposite. |
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baff
Junior Member
Posts: 75
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Post by baff on Oct 14, 2022 14:43:21 GMT
Talk me through the benefits of clear majority government, steve Bluntly, with a majority government it's easier to get business done and pass bills. With a minority or coalition government it can take a long time to get business done and passing bills is a slow process because all sides have to be satisfied. In terms of foreign policy, it's what you need to be effective. In terms of investment it is the same. If you can't deliver no can take you seriously. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 14, 2022 15:02:44 GMT
Essentially Truss and Reform share the same views. Farage couldn’t praise the failed minibudget enough. The ideas have crashed and burned at first contact with the real world. Hard to see Reform ever winning a seat under FPTP but they speak for a small subsection of the electorate and deserve a voice if they can cross a threshold - say 5%. I think the case for PR is becoming more and more compelling. I'm not convinced. Truss's only support in the Conservative party is the right wing of it. She's telling them what they want to hear. But she has no ability to deliver it. And no track record of voting for it. Quite the opposite. Oh I dunno, Truss's voting record suggests she's right of centre; www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24941/elizabeth_truss/south_west_norfolk/votes |
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Reform UK
Oct 14, 2022 15:29:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by dappy on Oct 14, 2022 15:29:23 GMT
Talk me through the benefits of clear majority government, steve Bluntly, with a majority government it's easier to get business done and pass bills. With a minority or coalition government it can take a long time to get business done and passing bills is a slow process because all sides have to be satisfied. You don’t think it might be a good idea to subject legislation that will affect us all to critical challenge before being enacted rather than be rushed through on party whips? How odd! How do you think the large majority in the current parliament has performed? Strong and stable the words that spring to mind?? |
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Post by Orac on Oct 14, 2022 15:40:35 GMT
You don’t think it might be a good idea to subject legislation that will affect us all to critical challenge before being enacted rather than be rushed through on party whips? How odd! It's arguable. With extreme moderation, a gigantic balloon of useless people forms - a huge procedural court edifice caked with corruption. And then this creature ends up pursuing its own interests and whatever people voted for becomes an irrelevancy. There is something beautiful and simple about the notion of a government having power to govern and people having the power to sack them |
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Reform UK
Oct 14, 2022 15:55:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by dappy on Oct 14, 2022 15:55:21 GMT
Do non-majority governments not have to face future General Elections Mags? Didn’t know that
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 14, 2022 15:56:21 GMT
Dappy, as far as the government's performance is concerned, I have to say it's not very good. I think it's constrained by outside factors that are largely out of the government's hands. I concede back bench tory MP's are doing Starmer more favours than they are the party or the government, we're in strange times. Over the past two or three years the three issues that have dominated politics, and not just in this country, is Net-Zero nonsense, covid and Ukraine, and regardless of who is prime minister or which party is in power, that would not have changed.
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Post by Orac on Oct 14, 2022 16:09:06 GMT
Do non-majority governments not have to face future General Elections Mags? Didn’t know that You mean coalitions.? Of course they do. However, nobody really has the power to govern and it isn't entirely clear who is responsible for anything. Dappy, during my reply i accidently edited your post. My sincere apologies if anything was lost |
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Reform UK
Oct 14, 2022 16:09:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by dappy on Oct 14, 2022 16:09:30 GMT
You’re blaming backbenchers and not the two incompetents at the very top. Wow that’s imaginative.
Let’s hope the third PM of this parliament ( another record I believe) can at least stabilize the utter shambles they will inherit.
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Post by Steve on Oct 14, 2022 16:16:42 GMT
Talk me through the benefits of clear majority government, steve I'm not the rest person to do that. I voted for AV instead of First Past the Post. I guess one supposed benefit is quicker decision making but just look what that's given us recently |
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Reform UK
Oct 14, 2022 16:20:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by dappy on Oct 14, 2022 16:20:57 GMT
Do non-majority governments not have to face future General Elections Mags? Didn’t know that You mean coalitions.? Of course they do. However, nobody really has the power to govern and it isn't entirely clear who is responsible for anything. Dappy, during my reply i accidently edited your post. My sincere apologies if anything was lost Email?  The Minister for Education is for example responsible for say education and the PM overall for the whole thing. And they have power to govern but need to do stuff that commands support from those representing over 50% of the electorate. As a bonus more minority views (like Reform for example) get a representation in parliament and people like me who live in a “safe seat” actually get to influence who governs us in this so called democracy. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 14, 2022 16:33:30 GMT
My rushed apology included another error which i then had to correct. Don't worry, I have not changed your email lol The Minister for Education is for example responsible for say education and the PM overall for the whole thing. We need accountability in terms of parties because we can't sack individual ministers, only parties. And they have power to govern but need to do stuff that commands support from those representing over 50% of the electorate. Which means their accountability and power is diluted. As a bonus more minority views (like Reform for example) get a representation in parliament and people like me who live in a “safe seat” actually get to influence who governs us in this so called democracy. The downside is you end up with unaccountable governments who can't really govern. If you game this out you end up with a permanent, opaque, mediocre bureaucracy that can't be voted out. |
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