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Post by jonksy on Apr 2, 2024 8:02:46 GMT
makes blairs PFI look good doesn't it? At least some of the PFI money went to funding the NHS (and you know full well how much I loathe Tony Blair). Unlike Truss or Sunak's eye-watering numbers. All The Best Blairs PFI is a total waste of money and just achieved a non ending debt that make a few billion quid you accuse the Tory of being a bargain. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 2, 2024 8:10:16 GMT
At least some of the PFI money went to funding the NHS (and you know full well how much I loathe Tony Blair). Unlike Truss or Sunak's eye-watering numbers. All The Best Blairs PFI is a total waste of money and just achieved a non ending debt that make a few billion quid you accuse the Tory of being a bargain. No, here's why. Of the £30 Billion Truss cost the treasury and the £36 billion Sunak pissed up the wall not one penny of it went to funding the NHS, and in fact both highly likely contributed to NHS funding being reduced. Some of the money raised by PFI held fund NHS infrastructure. See the difference yet? Or do I need Peter & Jane to help explain it to you? All The Best |
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Post by jonksy on Apr 2, 2024 8:14:55 GMT
Blairs PFI is a total waste of money and just achieved a non ending debt that make a few billion quid you accuse the Tory of being a bargain. No, here's why. Of the £30 Billion Truss cost the treasury and the £36 billion Sunak pissed up the wall not one penny of it went to funding the NHS, and in fact both highly likely contributed to NHS funding being reduced. Some of the money raised by PFI held fund NHS infrastructure. See the difference yet? Or do I need Peter & Jane to help explain it to you? All The Best How much of that was poured into the bottom less pit during the pandemic. And as for pfi paying for his infrastructure the Interest alone on it would build 4 up to date hositals all fully equipped each year. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 2, 2024 8:36:59 GMT
No, here's why. Of the £30 Billion Truss cost the treasury and the £36 billion Sunak pissed up the wall not one penny of it went to funding the NHS, and in fact both highly likely contributed to NHS funding being reduced. Some of the money raised by PFI held fund NHS infrastructure. See the difference yet? Or do I need Peter & Jane to help explain it to you? All The Best How much of that was poured into the bottom less pit during the pandemic. And as for pfi paying for his infrastructure the Interest alone on it would build 4 up to date hositals all fully equipped each year.I know, and I agree in the Medium and Long Terms PFI was (and remains) a complete disaster (£2.1 Billion in interest payments this year, peaking at £2.6 Billion in 2029). But remember PFI was not Blair's idea, it was a Tory idea he latched on to (first introduced in 1992 by Conservative PM John Major). But the point remains: some of the money (not enough) spent on PFI help to fund the NHS; none of the £66 Billion lost to the Treasury by Truss and Sunak did. All The Best |
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Post by jonksy on Apr 2, 2024 8:52:14 GMT
How much of that was poured into the bottom less pit during the pandemic. And as for pfi paying for his infrastructure the Interest alone on it would build 4 up to date hositals all fully equipped each year.I know, and I agree in the Medium and Long Terms PFI was (and remains) a complete disaster (£2.1 Billion in interest payments this year, peaking at £2.6 Billion in 2029). But remember PFI was not Blair's idea, it was a Tory idea he latched on to (first introduced in 1992 by Conservative PM John Major). But the point remains: some of the money (not enough) spent on PFI help to fund the NHS; none of the £66 Billion lost to the Treasury by Truss and Sunak did. All The Best The point is the pandemic cost billions along with NHS strikes and the management pissing millions more up the wall on diversity bs. |
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Post by piglet on Apr 2, 2024 9:48:22 GMT
Those that run the NHS dont care about the suffering thats caused by front line under funding. Indeed, front line services are kept at crisis levels deliberately, i know i worked there. In my thirty years plus, did i ever see an increase in services, despite extra funds being pumped in .....no. All are culpable, all parties. State run systems are a disaster. Private ones will bleed you of money to stay healthy.
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 2, 2024 10:33:41 GMT
I know, and I agree in the Medium and Long Terms PFI was (and remains) a complete disaster (£2.1 Billion in interest payments this year, peaking at £2.6 Billion in 2029). But remember PFI was not Blair's idea, it was a Tory idea he latched on to (first introduced in 1992 by Conservative PM John Major). But the point remains: some of the money (not enough) spent on PFI help to fund the NHS; none of the £66 Billion lost to the Treasury by Truss and Sunak did. All The Best The point is the pandemic cost billions along with NHS strikes and the management pissing millions more up the wall on diversity bs. Well, the Pandemic NEEDED a response; anyone who thinks otherwise needs to go back to sitting in a corner licking the windows. Yes NHS Management needs reform, no doubt about it - the ability to bring some services (cleaning and catering and non-medical procurement) back "in house" would be a HUGE step in the right direction. Diversity is here... ...end of. It always has been but policy did not reflect that. The fight now is to manage the policy approach to diversity in as fair and efficient manner as possible. The point is you are moaning about £100 Million when Truss and Sunak spaffed £66 Billion up the wall for no net gain to the country as a whole. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 2, 2024 10:35:12 GMT
Those that run the NHS dont care about the suffering thats caused by front line under funding. Indeed, front line services are kept at crisis levels deliberately, i know i worked there. In my thirty years plus, did i ever see an increase in services, despite extra funds being pumped in .....no. All are culpable, all parties. State run systems are a disaster. Private ones will bleed you of money to stay healthy. Front Line Underfunding is wholly caused by Central Government, NOT NHS Management (whose job is to manage (huge clue there) the fund they are allocated by Government). All The Best |
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Post by ratcliff on Apr 2, 2024 18:49:27 GMT
We've got a place in Wales, I was talking to a few of the locals and they were on about the NHS, apparently a lot of Welsh cancer sufferers have to go to a hospital in a place called the Wirral Cheshire (England) where there is a Cancer specialist hospital, when they receive their Cancer treatment, they were saying people use motor homes or caravans and actually stay on the hospital carpark grounds because saves them going back and forth to Wales.
I asked why they were all traveling out of Wales to use a English NHS........ they said the Welsh cancer hospitals are nowhere near as good as the English ones, so Starmer/Labour are talking absolute bullshit.
Either that or Pacifico's comment is entirely either wrong, or is out of context making his post 'absolute bullshit'. I have asked him to date his comment and to put it into the context in which it was made, if in fact Starmer did make such a comment. My google worked - has your google broken? In his speech today he said: "A Welsh Labour government is the living proof of what Labour in power looks like, how things can be done differently and better. You demonstrate daily the difference Labour really makes. A blueprint for what Labour can do across the UK.
"My plan is to deliver a UK Labour government that can match that. Imagine what we could do if we had this Welsh Government working together with a Labour Government in Westminster – what a change we could make. And what a difference we could bring to millions of lives.
"That isn’t a pipe dream: That it is our mission. We are not just on the road to the locals this May, we are on the road to the next General Election. Whether it’s next year or the year after, the General Election approaches, it is our chance to replicate what we see in Wales right across the UK."www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-03-12/keir-starmer-points-to-welsh-labour-government-as-blueprint-for-uk |
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Post by see2 on Apr 3, 2024 8:56:14 GMT
Either that or Pacifico's comment is entirely either wrong, or is out of context making his post 'absolute bullshit'. I have asked him to date his comment and to put it into the context in which it was made, if in fact Starmer did make such a comment. My google worked - has your google broken? In his speech today he said: "A Welsh Labour government is the living proof of what Labour in power looks like, how things can be done differently and better. You demonstrate daily the difference Labour really makes. A blueprint for what Labour can do across the UK.
"My plan is to deliver a UK Labour government that can match that. Imagine what we could do if we had this Welsh Government working together with a Labour Government in Westminster – what a change we could make. And what a difference we could bring to millions of lives.
"That isn’t a pipe dream: That it is our mission. We are not just on the road to the locals this May, we are on the road to the next General Election. Whether it’s next year or the year after, the General Election approaches, it is our chance to replicate what we see in Wales right across the UK."www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-03-12/keir-starmer-points-to-welsh-labour-government-as-blueprint-for-ukThanks. It seems that Starmer got carried away with the English / Welsh agreement on how Ukrainian refugees should be treated. 2022 was the recovery period from Covid, it was a bad time for all of the UK none of which came out looking good. So just what the Welsh proposed at that time is an unknown. What actually happened wasn't good. Starmer was full of praise at that point, not sure he would be so full of praise today. I don't blame the Tories for making as much propaganda as possible from this, propaganda is all they have to offer. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 3, 2024 10:29:28 GMT
My google worked - has your google broken? In his speech today he said: "A Welsh Labour government is the living proof of what Labour in power looks like, how things can be done differently and better. You demonstrate daily the difference Labour really makes. A blueprint for what Labour can do across the UK.
"My plan is to deliver a UK Labour government that can match that. Imagine what we could do if we had this Welsh Government working together with a Labour Government in Westminster – what a change we could make. And what a difference we could bring to millions of lives.
"That isn’t a pipe dream: That it is our mission. We are not just on the road to the locals this May, we are on the road to the next General Election. Whether it’s next year or the year after, the General Election approaches, it is our chance to replicate what we see in Wales right across the UK."www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-03-12/keir-starmer-points-to-welsh-labour-government-as-blueprint-for-ukThanks. It seems that Starmer got carried away with the English / Welsh agreement on how Ukrainian refugees should be treated. 2022 was the recovery period from Covid, it was a bad time for all of the UK none of which came out looking good. So just what the Welsh proposed at that time is an unknown. What actually happened wasn't good. Starmer was full of praise at that point, not sure he would be so full of praise today. I don't blame the Tories for making as much propaganda as possible from this, propaganda is all they have to offer. But it only "seems" that way to you. Starmer did not qualify that all of his his comments we exclusively about Ukrainian Refugees - so it is wholly dishonest to try and infer that he did. Starmer did explicitly state he was talking about what things might look like AFTER a General Election; and as everyone knows (except you it seems) a General Election is never only about Ukrainian Refugees. Still, Starmer is the last shabby remnant of the failed NuLab experiment, so it is obvious you will twist the truth and obfuscate away to make him look good; Starmer will not win the General Election; the Conservatives will lose it, and that tells you just how bad Starmer's Labour is. Under a genuine Labour Leader Labour would be in positive rating territory with a huge lead over the Tories, not struggling to maintain a negative point lead ( LINK) The least popular, and least competent Conservative Government in my lifetime, and Starmer can still only poll at -25, the Labour Party doing slightly better on only (ha ha) -12. Go on, blame the Global Financial Crisis for this too, you blame everything else NuLab got wrong on it. All The Best |
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Post by see2 on Apr 3, 2024 19:51:49 GMT
Thanks. It seems that Starmer got carried away with the English / Welsh agreement on how Ukrainian refugees should be treated. 2022 was the recovery period from Covid, it was a bad time for all of the UK none of which came out looking good. So just what the Welsh proposed at that time is an unknown. What actually happened wasn't good. Starmer was full of praise at that point, not sure he would be so full of praise today. I don't blame the Tories for making as much propaganda as possible from this, propaganda is all they have to offer. But it only "seems" that way to you. Starmer did not qualify that all of his his comments we exclusively about Ukrainian Refugees - so it is wholly dishonest to try and infer that he did. Starmer did explicitly state he was talking about what things might look like AFTER a General Election; and as everyone knows (except you it seems) a General Election is never only about Ukrainian Refugees. Still, Starmer is the last shabby remnant of the failed NuLab experiment, so it is obvious you will twist the truth and obfuscate away to make him look good; Starmer will not win the General Election; the Conservatives will lose it, and that tells you just how bad Starmer's Labour is. Under a genuine Labour Leader Labour would be in positive rating territory with a huge lead over the Tories, not struggling to maintain a negative point lead ( LINK) The least popular, and least competent Conservative Government in my lifetime, and Starmer can still only poll at -25, the Labour Party doing slightly better on only (ha ha) -12. Go on, blame the Global Financial Crisis for this too, you blame everything else NuLab got wrong on it. All The Best 1. That is why I did not infer anything, I referred to a possibility. In the absence of anything concrete that he was alluding to, one can only guess. AFAIA, he was referring to the period leading up to an election, so again nothing concrete. I see absolutely no reason for you to get carried away about the Ukrainian comment. 2. What failed NL experiment are you referring to? Are you confusing NL with the international financial meltdown with its knock on affects that sent a financial ripple of economic uncertainty around the world? The rest of your extremely shabby post immediately hit the bin where it belonged. 3. Nope, if anything it might tell us two things, A. Just how bad the Conservatives are, B. Just how far up your own jacksie you are. 4. Conservative propaganda has done immeasurable damage to the New Labour cause, often aided and abetted by misguided posters like yourself. 5. I don't have to blame the "GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS" it is self obvious to anyone with an open and unbiased mind.  |
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 3, 2024 21:33:36 GMT
But it only "seems" that way to you. Starmer did not qualify that all of his his comments we exclusively about Ukrainian Refugees - so it is wholly dishonest to try and infer that he did. Starmer did explicitly state he was talking about what things might look like AFTER a General Election; and as everyone knows (except you it seems) a General Election is never only about Ukrainian Refugees. Still, Starmer is the last shabby remnant of the failed NuLab experiment, so it is obvious you will twist the truth and obfuscate away to make him look good; Starmer will not win the General Election; the Conservatives will lose it, and that tells you just how bad Starmer's Labour is. Under a genuine Labour Leader Labour would be in positive rating territory with a huge lead over the Tories, not struggling to maintain a negative point lead ( LINK) The least popular, and least competent Conservative Government in my lifetime, and Starmer can still only poll at -25, the Labour Party doing slightly better on only (ha ha) -12. Go on, blame the Global Financial Crisis for this too, you blame everything else NuLab got wrong on it. All The Best 1. That is why I did not infer anything, I referred to a possibility. In the absence of anything concrete that he was alluding to, one can only guess. AFAIA, he was referring to the period leading up to an election, so again nothing concrete. I see absolutely no reason for you to get carried away about the Ukrainian comment. 2. What failed NL experiment are you referring to? Are you confusing NL with the international financial meltdown with its knock on affects that sent a financial ripple of economic uncertainty around the world? The rest of your extremely shabby post immediately hit the bin where it belonged. 3. Nope, if anything it might tell us two things, A. Just how bad the Conservatives are, B. Just how far up your own jacksie you are. 4. Conservative propaganda has done immeasurable damage to the New Labour cause, often aided and abetted by misguided posters like yourself. 5. I don't have to blame the "GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS" it is self obvious to anyone with an open and unbiased mind. 1) Lie he was clearly talking about how he saw things AFTER the General Election, which can not possibly only have been fought on a few weeks if support for Ukrainian Refugees in Wales. 2) Blaming the financial meltdown for NuLabs failures to adequately protect the UK economy by diversifying it away from the FSS. 3) The poll did not aske any questions about my jacksie. It showed that Labour and Starmer especially are at appalling low approval ratings, even when the opposition is in free-fall and destroying itself day by day. 4) No, NuLab did damage to NuLab's cause by a) being financially incompetent, and b) betraying their core voting demographic. 5) Well, if you don't have to why did you do EXACTLY that in 2)? So stupid / blinkered / illiterate (delete as appropriate) you can't even keep track of your own lies over a few hundred words. All The Best |
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Post by dodgydave on Apr 4, 2024 2:55:00 GMT
The point is the pandemic cost billions along with NHS strikes and the management pissing millions more up the wall on diversity bs. Well, the Pandemic NEEDED a response; anyone who thinks otherwise needs to go back to sitting in a corner licking the windows. Yes NHS Management needs reform, no doubt about it - the ability to bring some services (cleaning and catering and non-medical procurement) back "in house" would be a HUGE step in the right direction. Diversity is here... ...end of. It always has been but policy did not reflect that. The fight now is to manage the policy approach to diversity in as fair and efficient manner as possible. The point is you are moaning about £100 Million when Truss and Sunak spaffed £66 Billion up the wall for no net gain to the country as a whole. All The Best £100m is out of the NHS budget, so it is real money. The £66b figures you keep quoting are not straight forward. When you reduce one tax it often increases the amount received on a different tax, or it increases the acceptance of the tax, and more people engage with the tax and you end up taking more total tax in. Department budgets are real, forecasts of taxes raised / growth are just made up bollocks... but just the right amount of bollocks so you can sneak it past the Office for Budget Responsibility. Truss was an idiot, she caused a run on the market and a big problem for anybody that needed a mortgage during those weeks of uncertainty. Remember it wasn't what she announced that caused the problems, it was the fact that she ignored procedure and didn't run her plans past the OBS for analysis. This lack of analysis allowed the markets snakes to create uncertainty, which they used to make a fast buck. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Apr 4, 2024 7:41:16 GMT
Well, the Pandemic NEEDED a response; anyone who thinks otherwise needs to go back to sitting in a corner licking the windows. Yes NHS Management needs reform, no doubt about it - the ability to bring some services (cleaning and catering and non-medical procurement) back "in house" would be a HUGE step in the right direction. Diversity is here... ...end of. It always has been but policy did not reflect that. The fight now is to manage the policy approach to diversity in as fair and efficient manner as possible. The point is you are moaning about £100 Million when Truss and Sunak spaffed £66 Billion up the wall for no net gain to the country as a whole. All The Best £100m is out of the NHS budget, so it is real money. The £66b figures you keep quoting are not straight forward. When you reduce one tax it often increases the amount received on a different tax, or it increases the acceptance of the tax, and more people engage with the tax and you end up taking more total tax in.Department budgets are real, forecasts of taxes raised / growth are just made up bollocks... but just the right amount of bollocks so you can sneak it past the Office for Budget Responsibility. Truss was an idiot, she caused a run on the market and a big problem for anybody that needed a mortgage during those weeks of uncertainty. Remember it wasn't what she announced that caused the problems, it was the fact that she ignored procedure and didn't run her plans past the OBS for analysis. This lack of analysis allowed the markets snakes to create uncertainty, which they used to make a fast buck. Correct. The £30 Billion Truss wasted has had time to be looked at with that in mind; maybe Sunak's £36 Billion has not yet - but does anyopne see any of the demographic he handed money to handing any of it to the NHS? Oh it was definitely WHAT Truss announced that caused the issue, not how she announced. She announced unfunded and unsustainable Tax Cuts - and everyone except her and Kwarteng knew that. All The Best |
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