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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 23, 2022 18:15:36 GMT
Do you have any stats to back up your numbers? I'm pretty sure you're way out... 1.7 million are on long-term sick and on what was once called incapacity benefit. Are we really supposed to believe there are 1.7 million people so sick that they are incapable of any kind of work? - That’s higher than the total population of Estonia.  Well, that's what the government has defined. And that would include people like my sister that I mentioned previously. I'm glad that you now acknowledge that you have included people that are unable to work. So, to go back to your original point, how many people are on "out of work benefits" that are capable of working. As I said, your 5.4M is going to be way out... |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 23, 2022 18:18:05 GMT
1.7 million are on long-term sick and on what was once called incapacity benefit. Are we really supposed to believe there are 1.7 million people so sick that they are incapable of any kind of work? - That’s higher than the total population of Estonia. Well, that's what the government has defined. And that would include people like my sister that I mentioned previously. I'm glad that you now acknowledge that you have included people that are unable to work. So, to go back to your original point, how many people are on "out of work benefits" that are capable of working. As I said, your 5.4M is going to be way out... How many people in this country do you think are so sick they cannot do any type of work? |
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Post by Steve on Nov 23, 2022 20:35:15 GMT
Well, that's what the government has defined. And that would include people like my sister that I mentioned previously. I'm glad that you now acknowledge that you have included people that are unable to work. So, to go back to your original point, how many people are on "out of work benefits" that are capable of working. As I said, your 5.4M is going to be way out... How many people in this country do you think are so sick they cannot do any type of work? Millions when the only work for pay they are allowed to do has to be for at least NMW |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 23, 2022 20:53:01 GMT
Well, that's what the government has defined. And that would include people like my sister that I mentioned previously. I'm glad that you now acknowledge that you have included people that are unable to work. So, to go back to your original point, how many people are on "out of work benefits" that are capable of working. As I said, your 5.4M is going to be way out... How many people in this country do you think are so sick they cannot do any type of work? Have you ever tried claiming ESA? 😳🤣 |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 23, 2022 22:10:06 GMT
How many people in this country do you think are so sick they cannot do any type of work? Have you ever tried claiming ESA? 😳🤣 How does that answer my question? With regards to ESA the regulations allow a certain amount of work anyway - are you trying to claim that anyone in receipt of ESA is incapable of any work at all? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 23, 2022 22:13:28 GMT
How many people in this country do you think are so sick they cannot do any type of work? Have you ever tried claiming ESA? 😳🤣 I've just googled ESA, 'Employment Support Allowance'. I assume that's what used to be called the dole? |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 23, 2022 22:19:02 GMT
One of the sickness benefits for long term sick is pip.
And you got to go for a medical assessment when you first go on it and every 2 years after.
Has for ESA thats one of the benefits you got to look for a job to claim it and you need to provide a sick note from your doctor every month
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 23, 2022 22:22:50 GMT
Have you ever tried claiming ESA? 😳🤣 How does that answer my question? With regards to ESA the regulations allow a certain amount of work anyway - are you trying to claim that anyone in receipt of ESA is incapable of any work at all? No, of course not. Some are allowed "permitted work" as you state. |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 23, 2022 22:33:37 GMT
Howmy does that answer my question? With regards to ESA the regulations allow a certain amount of work anyway - are you trying to claim that anyone in receipt of ESA is incapable of any work at all? No, of course not. Some are allowed "permitted work" as you state. Yes there allowed 16hrs a week to work many do this by takening up jobs In charity shops. My local mind cafe Is manned by voulenters |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 23, 2022 22:39:49 GMT
Have you ever tried claiming ESA? 😳🤣 I've just googled ESA, 'Employment Support Allowance'. I assume that's what used to be called the dole? No, it's for those who are too sick, disabled or terminally ill to work. For those looking for work, Job Seekers Allowance, although most claimants will get UC instead. UC replaces 6 legacy benefits, Income Support, Esa, jsa, working tax credit, child tax credit and housing benefit. New claims will go onto UC. Existing claims are being migrated. As you can see from Pacifico's graph, jsa claims are migrated much quicker than Esa. So really, within UC you need to know who actually has a "looking for work" requirement, hence why a further breakdown is needed to know what the actual available workforce is. I will add that there are some people who are looking for work but yet don't claim benefits for various reasons. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 23, 2022 22:42:28 GMT
How does that answer my question? With regards to ESA the regulations allow a certain amount of work anyway - are you trying to claim that anyone in receipt of ESA is incapable of any work at all? No, of course not. Some are allowed "permitted work" as you state. So we are no closer to any idea of how many people who are in receipt of welfare are actually capable of working. We have 5 million on welfare - I'd suggest the numbers who are incapable of any work at all are way less than a million. The challenge is to get those who can into work. Nobody is claiming it is cheap or easy but what you can be assured of is that if we keep following your ideas and simply allow businesses to pick up the phone and import cheap labour they will not put the investment in to change their business to accommodate the needs of sick and disabled who wish to work. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 23, 2022 22:50:09 GMT
My ideas? I don't believe I put any forward, have I?
All I've done is question your generalisation of "out of work benefits" and tried to point you towards the actual stats. Having produced a graph which is inconclusive, for the reasons of UC that I outlined to RR, you have now just succumbed to making a figure up.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 23, 2022 22:54:58 GMT
My ideas? I don't believe I put any forward, have I? All I've done is question your generalisation of "out of work benefits" and tried to point you towards the actual stats. Having produced a graph which is inconclusive, for the reasons of UC that I outlined to RR, you have now just succumbed to making a figure up. So answer my question - how many of that 5 million do you think are incapable of any work at all? |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 24, 2022 0:48:59 GMT
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Post by borchester on Nov 24, 2022 3:42:30 GMT
My ideas? I don't believe I put any forward, have I? All I've done is question your generalisation of "out of work benefits" and tried to point you towards the actual stats. Having produced a graph which is inconclusive, for the reasons of UC that I outlined to RR, you have now just succumbed to making a figure up. So answer my question - how many of that 5 million do you think are incapable of any work at all? Quite a lot actually.
I was a civil servant for a while and we had a lot of God's Walking Wounded who had all sorts of mental and physical problems. But they could find a file and put a letter into an envelope and they were glad of the work because it made them feel of some value. Then computers arrived and files were downloaded rather than pushed around the buildings in hand carts and letters were sent electronically rather than being typed out and all the rest.
So the Civil Service started to quietly get rid of its very low level workers. They were keen to work but the jobs have disappeared and they weren't the sort of folk who could retrain as brain surgeons.
So I would say that there are a lot of people incapable of work because the work isn't there.
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