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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 19, 2024 15:04:14 GMT
Title of a Channel 4 documentary hosted by self-described British-Nigerian Ade Adepitan, a frequenter presenter on British television these days.
Adepitan visits the South African township of Orania, created in the early 1990s as the apartheid regime crumbled. It presents itself today as a refuge for Afrikaaners who wish to preserve their own culture and have no interest in interacting with the mainstream (black) population.
Apparently they have proved quite successful and the population has increased to around three thousand in recent years. The town council is creating infrastructure to accommodate a future population of up to 10,000. According to locals what distinguishes Orania from the rest of the country is a relative absence of crime, lack of corruption and public services that work as they are supposed to.
During Adepitan's week-long visit he was received quite politely and only after a gaffe involving remarks about BLM did doors begin to close. He summarised his visit as confirming his belief that separation is not a desirable solution because if you don't mix amicably with other parts of a multicultural society then you are bound to encounter them later on the battlefield.
I watched the programme last night and was left with the impression that Orania feels like a slap in the face for multiculturalism since nobody there seemed prepared to voluntarily leave its prosperity and cocoon of security for the trials and tribulations of a multiracial-cum-multicultural setting. It seems to me only a matter of time before the authorities respond to calls for its forcible integration, as they would in any western country.
Adepitan received a savage one-star review in the Guardian on account of what its Sudanese reviewer called 'a woeful failure to challenge racism'.
I couldn't help thinking how an Orania, established to protect and preserve England's heritage and culture, would fare in England's green and pleasant land. And why not?
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 19, 2024 19:23:00 GMT
I'm going to be charitable and assume that members wish to watch Channel 4's documentary for themselves before commenting.
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Post by Orac on Mar 19, 2024 19:42:30 GMT
I think the Guardian is being a bit unfair. I mean, if it works, it works.
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 20, 2024 10:19:24 GMT
For such a stalwart proponent of minority rights as Ade Adepitan (MBE) to be slammed like that in the Guardian indicates a transgression on a major scale. The worst he could come up with in the programme itself was a couple private thoughts to camera of 'that's racist' and the admission that the major downside would be that someone like him would be uncomfortable in the place.
It was certainly an excellent showcase for the benefits of separatism. Perhaps we ought to give it a go in Europe, especially in the UK. If the Afrikaner minority, which is only 4% of the population and can only count 300 years of history, can make a success of it then surely creating a safe haven for an England with its majority native population and eleven centuries as a nation-state would be a resounding success. What is there to lose?
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Mar 21, 2024 12:30:23 GMT
I think that it would be resoundingly successful.
Not so much for its exclusion of others as its inherent exclusion of woke.
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Post by Dogburger on Mar 21, 2024 13:22:51 GMT
I think that it would be resoundingly successful. Not so much for its exclusion of others as its inherent exclusion of woke. Indeed , Im looking for such a retreat to go and retire away from London . There are still some parts of this green and pleasant land that are still England |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Mar 21, 2024 13:33:18 GMT
I think that it would be resoundingly successful. Not so much for its exclusion of others as its inherent exclusion of woke. Indeed , Im looking for such a retreat to go and retire away from London . There are still some parts of this green and pleasant land that are still England That's the thing, isn't it? Two generations ago most of England would have been much like that. And quite a bit still is. It's not about race in my view, it's about shared values. Back in the day, most people were agreed about the direction of the country. We were pulling together. Now society is fractured and being pulled in too many directions, which is why it's falling apart. A monoculture is simply always going to be more stable. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 21, 2024 13:54:07 GMT
Per the Afrikaners in Orania, it's about culture not race.
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 21, 2024 14:23:59 GMT
Per the Afrikaners in Orania, it's about culture not race. So you would accept someone as English if they were culturally English, regardless of their race? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 21, 2024 15:05:23 GMT
The Afrikaners in Orania told Adepitan they did not discriminate on grounds of race when people applied to join the community but rather on their acceptance of Afrikaner language, culture and history and its primacy over any other culture they might have been born and raised in, or otherwise exposed to.
The proof of the pudding is that no black or coloured Africans have ever applied to join. They appear to have got the message that it's not for them without having to be specifically told.
But to your specific question, I fail to see how someone who does not have many generations of ancestors buried in the ground and whose many generations of forebears have not been steeped in English history and culture for centuries can be considered to be 'culturally English'.
There's more to it than simply passing through the present-day education 'system' and learning the language, especially if it isn't the one spoken at home, and cultural references in the home and family environment default to the 'old country'.
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 21, 2024 15:38:26 GMT
The Afrikaners in Orania told Adepitan they did not discriminate on grounds of race when people applied to join the community but rather on their acceptance of Afrikaner language, culture and history and its primacy over any other culture they might have been born and raised in, or otherwise exposed to. The proof of the pudding is that no black or coloured Africans have ever applied to join. They appear to have got the message that it's not for them without having to be specifically told. But to your specific question, I fail to see how someone who does not have many generations of ancestors buried in the ground and whose many generations of forebears have not been steeped in English history and culture for centuries can be considered to be 'culturally English'. There's more to it than simply passing through the present-day education 'system' and learning the language, especially if it isn't the one spoken at home, and cultural references in the home and family environment default to the 'old country'. "It's about culture, not race" Your words. Your ancestry doesn't decide what TV programmes you watch growing up, what music you listened to, what fashion disasters you endured, what football team you support, what food you ate. Name me one aspect of British culture which can only be experienced by people with "generations of ancestors buried in the ground and whose many generations of forebears have not been steeped in English history and culture for centuries". |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 21, 2024 15:59:42 GMT
What you are listing are entertainments and 'divertessiments' to quote the French, ephemeral aspects of pop culture which are easily accessed and experienced by more or less anyone.
Most meaningful cultural attributes and perspectives are imbued and experienced in the home and family environment, surrounded by the people of multiple generations to whom you are related. They're not things you pick up from the kids at school or by watching the telly.
Immigrants and the offspring of immigrants are not able to avail themselves of such experiences since it typically requires many generations for the focus to shift from the 'old country' and its customs, traditions, customs and mores to the new one. If it ever does.
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 21, 2024 16:01:25 GMT
delete - duplicate
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 21, 2024 16:02:16 GMT
What you are listing are entertainments and 'divertessiments' to quote the French, ephemeral aspects of pop culture which are easily accessed and experienced by more or less anyone. Most meaningful cultural attributes are experienced in the home and family environment, surrounded by the people of multiple generations to whom you are related. Immigrants and the offspring of immigrants are not able to avail themselves of such experiences since it typically requires many generations for the focus to shift from the 'old country' and its customs, traditions, customs and mores to the new one. If it ever does. "Most meaningful cultural attributes are experienced in the home and family environment, surrounded by the people of multiple generations to whom you are related. Immigrants and the offspring of immigrants are not able to avail themselves of such experiences since it typically requires many generations for the focus to shift from the 'old country' and its customs, traditions, customs and mores to the new one. If it ever does." Give me an example please. Also, if they are experienced in the home, family environment then by definition they aren't national cultural experiences are they? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 21, 2024 16:04:59 GMT
I know you're just dying to get this down on a spreadsheet as per usual but I don't intend to oblige.
Use your own imagination.
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