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Post by happyhornet on Mar 22, 2024 8:54:29 GMT
So to sum up, nobody here has a problem with a minority group of immigrant descendants choosing to isolate themselves in a small corner of the country, speaking their own language and not integrating with the mainstream indigenous population and culture, correct? It's not something that one would do by design if starting from scratch, but since we're having to deal with a fait accompli created by successive earlier (and present) governments it becomes a matter of choosing between preserving something of our heritage and culture and losing it all.
In the circumstances, a territorial 'solution' is the least worst outcome in my view.
In short I wouldn't have a problem with doing as you propose.
So in future can I expect you to come to the defence of immigrants criticised for not integrating then? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 22, 2024 9:05:41 GMT
I've long held the view that they should be encouraged to celebrate their 'Otherness' whether by dress, language, tradition, customs or whatever.
That will make it that much simpler to separate the sheep from the goats when the time comes.
'Integration' is a chimera - it has never happened yet in any multiracial society, even those like France where it is state policy. The best that governments have been able to come up in the meantime with is draconian and repressive legislation designed to truncate ancient rights to freedom of association and expression.
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Post by ProVeritas on Mar 22, 2024 9:06:03 GMT
It's not something that one would do by design if starting from scratch, but since we're having to deal with a fait accompli created by successive earlier (and present) governments it becomes a matter of choosing between preserving something of our heritage and culture and losing it all.
In the circumstances, a territorial 'solution' is the least worst outcome in my view.
In short I wouldn't have a problem with doing as you propose.
So in future can I expect you to come to the defence of immigrants criticised for not integrating then? That would only make sense, within the remit of this discussion, if they did that exclusively in a discreet geographical location. All The Best |
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Post by Orac on Mar 22, 2024 9:18:34 GMT
Maybe For instance, If Indians want to make same area of India 'Indian only', I would have no issue at all. Why would I? Presumably - you are forcing the concept of minority in to your analysis to allow a particular asymmetry - ie territory to to be taken off your target group "If Indians want to make same area of India 'Indian only', I would have no issue at all." If a group of British people of Indian descent wanted to make an area of Britain asian only how would you feel about that? Clearly, that would be a bit rude. The obvious place to preserve Indian culture is, of course, India. Having an entire continent at your disposal, but instead deciding to move to a small island as a guest and claim parts of that as well for your culture, seems a bit greedy. What's wrong with India? Why do you need to move into to someone else's territory to preserve your own culture? I would have sympathy if any population reacted to forcibly resist such a maneuver. |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 22, 2024 9:49:59 GMT
"If Indians want to make same area of India 'Indian only', I would have no issue at all." If a group of British people of Indian descent wanted to make an area of Britain asian only how would you feel about that? Clearly, that would be a bit rude. The obvious place to preserve Indian culture is, of course, India. Having an entire continent at your disposal, but instead deciding to move to a small island as a guest and claim parts of that as well for your culture, seems a bit greedy. What's wrong with India? Why do you need to move into to someone else's territory to preserve your own culture? I would have sympathy if any population reacted to forcibly resist such a maneuver. You realise that Afrikaners are not indigenous to South Africa? Are those discussed in the OP being a bit rude in your opinion? |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 22, 2024 9:56:49 GMT
So in future can I expect you to come to the defence of immigrants criticised for not integrating then? That would only make sense, within the remit of this discussion, if they did that exclusively in a discreet geographical location. All The Best And if thousands of British citizens of Pakistani descent moved to a "discreet geographical location" in the UK, dedicated it to preserving Pakistani culture, spoke only Urdu and had an Asians only policy, what do you think the reaction would be from the posters currently defending Orania would be? |
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Post by Orac on Mar 22, 2024 10:04:25 GMT
Clearly, that would be a bit rude. The obvious place to preserve Indian culture is, of course, India. Having an entire continent at your disposal, but instead deciding to move to a small island as a guest and claim parts of that as well for your culture, seems a bit greedy. What's wrong with India? Why do you need to move into to someone else's territory to preserve your own culture? I would have sympathy if any population reacted to forcibly resist such a maneuver. You realise that Afrikaners are not indigenous to South Africa? Are those discussed in the OP being a bit rude in your opinion? South Africa is rather special situation - virtually nobody who lives there is particularly indigenous. Settlers made a territory and then that arrangement collapsed. |
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Post by bancroft on Mar 22, 2024 10:11:23 GMT
I know you're just dying to get this down on a spreadsheet as per usual but I don't intend to oblige. Use your own imagination. Dan, I see the link is behind a Channel 4 sign-in page. Are you subscribed and is C4 pay per view? |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 22, 2024 10:14:02 GMT
You realise that Afrikaners are not indigenous to South Africa? Are those discussed in the OP being a bit rude in your opinion? South Africa is rather special situation - virtually nobody who lives there is particularly indigenous. Settlers made a territory and then that arrangement collapsed. Afrikaans are of primarily Dutch descent I believe. If they want to preserve Dutch culture shouldn't they do it in the Netherlands? |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 22, 2024 10:17:30 GMT
I've long held the view that they should be encouraged to celebrate their 'Otherness' whether by dress, language, tradition, customs or whatever. That will make it that much simpler to separate the sheep from the goats when the time comes. 'Integration' is a chimera - it has never happened yet in any multiracial society, even those like France where it is state policy. The best that governments have been able to come up in the meantime with is draconian and repressive legislation designed to truncate ancient rights to freedom of association and expression. "That will make it that much simpler to separate the sheep from the goats when the time comes." When what time comes? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 22, 2024 10:21:38 GMT
South Africa is rather special situation - virtually nobody who lives there is particularly indigenous. Settlers made a territory and then that arrangement collapsed. Afrikaans are of primarily Dutch descent I believe. If they want to preserve Dutch culture shouldn't they do it in the Netherlands? Afrikaner history history and culture is as distant from the Dutch as American is from English. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 22, 2024 10:22:59 GMT
I know you're just dying to get this down on a spreadsheet as per usual but I don't intend to oblige. Use your own imagination. Dan, I see the link is behind a Channel 4 sign-in page. Are you subscribed and is C4 pay per view? I watched the programme after recording it on Sky. C4 is free to view. |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 22, 2024 10:27:03 GMT
Afrikaans are of primarily Dutch descent I believe. If they want to preserve Dutch culture shouldn't they do it in the Netherlands? Afrikaner history history and culture is as distant from the Dutch as American is from English. Would you say American culture is more or less similar to English culture than indegenous Native American cultures? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 22, 2024 10:27:06 GMT
And if thousands of British citizens of Pakistani descent moved to a "discreet geographical location" in the UK, dedicated it to preserving Pakistani culture, spoke only Urdu and had an Asians only policy, what do you think the reaction would be from the posters currently defending Orania would be? You're thinking of places like Rochdale, Luton and Bradford, right? |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 22, 2024 10:27:52 GMT
And if thousands of British citizens of Pakistani descent moved to a "discreet geographical location" in the UK, dedicated it to preserving Pakistani culture, spoke only Urdu and had an Asians only policy, what do you think the reaction would be from the posters currently defending Orania would be? You're thinking of places like Rochdale, Luton and Bradford, right? Presumably they have your support? |
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