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Post by see2 on Mar 16, 2024 17:36:18 GMT
IMO Thatcher was hard right. i.e. someway short of being a fascist. The New Labour period 1997 to 2010 when NL held a position of centre left with the intentions of using the existing system but making it work for the 'many not the few' and that came some time after 1974. New Labour had to repair the excessive economic damage done to the NHS and to State education, that meant taking the opposite approach to that taken by Thatcher. Miliband and Corbyn weren't anything like the real New Labour. It looks like a Labour victory would Herold in a renewal of the New Labour approach. But face a much harder task than NL in 1997. NuLab were centre-right, NOT centre-left. All The Best Centre-left with a view to making the interests of all of society, or at least most of society, the rightful concern of intelligent governance. No intentions of creating a revolution in the Left 'V' Right of politics war. IMO it was the very thing this country needed at that time, and again now as labour look like picking up another economic position destroyed by the Tory party. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 16, 2024 17:50:27 GMT
NuLab were centre-right, NOT centre-left. All The Best Centre-left with a view to making the interests of all of society, or at least most of society, the rightful concern of intelligent governance. No intentions of creating a revolution in the Left 'V' Right of politics war. IMO it was the very thing this country needed at that time, and again now as labour look like picking up another economic position destroyed by the Tory party. Post unequivocal evidence to prove your claim . Otherwise it’s just the opinion of a stunted mind . |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2024 18:21:02 GMT
UK Right-Wing Populism tropes: Blame immigrants for everything. Blame "the woke" for everything even though less than 0.001% of public spending is spent on "the woke". Blame the EU for everything,. even though we left 4 years ago. Claim that Leaving the EU "never got done" rather than accepting it did, but our MPs delivered shit because they are incompetent, and all of them - Labour and Tory alike - would rather we stayed in. Populism can be left-wing or right-wing; usually proclaimed as such by a person firmly entrenched at the other end of the political-spectrum. Which is dumb in and of itself, because the political-spectrum is no longer really valid, and hasn't been for a generation. In reality the "trans debate" isn't even a debate - just reactionists on both sides pretending to be outraged by what is, in effect, not much of an issue. We just need both sides to "wind their necks in" and use a bit of common sense. All The Best They are the ones who want to peddle the idea that we can change sex by demand . Right wingers dont generally call left wing populism by that name . I suppose they refer to it as wokeism . However you seem to agree with most of what you replied to. I see you have fallen for the leftie lie that right wingers blame immigrants , woke and the EU for EVERYTHING . While this rather stupid false accusation is around there never will be an environment for anyone to “ wind their necks in” never mind “ use a bit of common sense “. It's an elitist dictatorship pushed by a few social fanatical extremists, which is why Scotland will be locking people up who refer to a man as a man. Labour will of course implement the same thing for the rest of us, simply because it cannot stand on its own merit. It's the opposite of populism.
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Post by Bentley on Mar 16, 2024 18:33:22 GMT
The trans debate is very much left wing popularism. They are the ones who want to peddle the idea that we can change sex by demand . Right wingers dont generally call left wing populism by that name . I suppose they refer to it as wokeism . However you seem to agree with most of what you replied to. I see you have fallen for the leftie lie that right wingers blame immigrants , woke and the EU for EVERYTHING . While this rather stupid false accusation is around there never will be an environment for anyone to “ wind their necks in” never mind “ use a bit of common sense “. It's an elitist dictatorship pushed by a few social fanatical extremists, which is why Scotland will be locking people up who refer to a man as a man. Labour will of course implement the same thing for the rest of us, simply because it cannot stand on its own merit. It's the opposite of populism.
Possibly but imo there are enough leftie wokeists around that would support forcing other people to accept the lie to call it populism. Identity politics and wokeism seem to be very popular. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Mar 16, 2024 18:33:43 GMT
UK Right-Wing Populism tropes: Blame immigrants for everything. Blame "the woke" for everything even though less than 0.001% of public spending is spent on "the woke". Blame the EU for everything,. even though we left 4 years ago. Claim that Leaving the EU "never got done" rather than accepting it did, but our MPs delivered shit because they are incompetent, and all of them - Labour and Tory alike - would rather we stayed in. Populism can be left-wing or right-wing; usually proclaimed as such by a person firmly entrenched at the other end of the political-spectrum. Which is dumb in and of itself, because the political-spectrum is no longer really valid, and hasn't been for a generation. In reality the "trans debate" isn't even a debate - just reactionists on both sides pretending to be outraged by what is, in effect, not much of an issue. We just need both sides to "wind their necks in" and use a bit of common sense. All The Best The trans debate is very much left wing popularism. They are the ones who want to peddle the idea that we can change sex by demand . Right wingers dont generally call left wing populism by that name . I suppose they refer to it as wokeism . However you seem to agree with most of what you replied to. I see you have fallen for the leftie lie that right wingers blame immigrants , woke and the EU for EVERYTHING . While this rather stupid false accusation is around there never will be an environment for anyone to “ wind their necks in” never mind “ use a bit of common sense “. I don't think the trans debate is "left wing populism" at all. It is fundamentally about basic human rights. But let me be specific here so I am not misunderstood. I am perfectly happy for someone to identify as the opposite sex if they are going through the gender reassignment process. Once they have done so I am perfectly OK with them asking to be called by different pronouns, as long as they understand sometimes people will make mistakes. My reluctance comes with the issue of "private spaces" - public bathrooms, where I feel biological women have a right to ask for gender reassigned women to be excluded; I also have an issue with male-to-female transgender people being able to compete in female sports, where they have a clear and distinct advantage, unless they transitioned pre-puberty (using Puberty Blockers). I am yet to see evidence of significant numbers of right-wing commentators / supporters on forums and social media NOT blaming Immigrants, the EU / Not-Brexit, or "The Woke"; your experience may of course be different. All The Best |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2024 18:36:57 GMT
Human rights now include locking people up in prison for supporting biological nature and not referring to a man as a woman?
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Post by ProVeritas on Mar 16, 2024 18:41:06 GMT
Human rights now include locking people up in prison for supporting biological nature and not referring to a man as a woman? Did I say that? No, I didn't. You just imagined it. All The Best |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2024 18:43:50 GMT
Human rights now include locking people up in prison for supporting biological nature and not referring to a man as a woman? Did I say that? No, I didn't. You just imagined it. All The Best It was a question and one you failed to answer. This could be because it doesn't require justification, only total obedience or else the state will punish them. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 16, 2024 18:44:32 GMT
The trans debate is very much left wing popularism. They are the ones who want to peddle the idea that we can change sex by demand . Right wingers dont generally call left wing populism by that name . I suppose they refer to it as wokeism . However you seem to agree with most of what you replied to. I see you have fallen for the leftie lie that right wingers blame immigrants , woke and the EU for EVERYTHING . While this rather stupid false accusation is around there never will be an environment for anyone to “ wind their necks in” never mind “ use a bit of common sense “. I don't think the trans debate is "left wing populism" at all. It is fundamentally about basic human rights. But let me be specific here so I am not misunderstood. I am perfectly happy for someone to identify as the opposite sex if they are going through the gender reassignment process. Once they have done so I am perfectly OK with them asking to be called by different pronouns, as long as they understand sometimes people will make mistakes. My reluctance comes with the issue of "private spaces" - public bathrooms, where I feel biological women have a right to ask for gender reassigned women to be excluded; I also have an issue with male-to-female transgender people being able to compete in female sports, where they have a clear and distinct advantage, unless they transitioned pre-puberty (using Puberty Blockers). I am yet to see evidence of significant numbers of right-wing commentators / supporters on forums and social media NOT blaming Immigrants, the EU / Not-Brexit, or "The Woke"; your experience may of course be different. All The Best You might not think it is but I do. No not about about basic human rights . It’s about this “What started as an attempt to ensure that a very small minority of people with ‘gender dysphoria’ (those who feel there’s a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity) were not discriminated against has morphed into a powerful global movement which allows men to claim to be women.” It’s at at least as dishonest as any ‘ right wing ‘ populist claims and it does resonate with the left wing wokeists. I never said that there’s not a significant number of right wingers blaming immigrants , the EU and wokeists for problems in the UK. I said they didn’t blame them for EVERYTHING. Which is what you claimed . There is a difference. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 16, 2024 18:59:56 GMT
I don't think the trans debate is "left wing populism" at all. It is fundamentally about basic human rights. But let me be specific here so I am not misunderstood. I am perfectly happy for someone to identify as the opposite sex if they are going through the gender reassignment process. Once they have done so I am perfectly OK with them asking to be called by different pronouns, as long as they understand sometimes people will make mistakes. My reluctance comes with the issue of "private spaces" - public bathrooms, where I feel biological women have a right to ask for gender reassigned women to be excluded; I also have an issue with male-to-female transgender people being able to compete in female sports, where they have a clear and distinct advantage, unless they transitioned pre-puberty (using Puberty Blockers). I am yet to see evidence of significant numbers of right-wing commentators / supporters on forums and social media NOT blaming Immigrants, the EU / Not-Brexit, or "The Woke"; your experience may of course be different. All The Best The so called 'Trans debate' is very much trendy left wing populism imported from the US. You start by saying it's about basic human rights, then say biological women, should have their own spaces, how very understanding of you. Personally and call me picky, but I would describe 'biological' women as real women who since the days of Emmeline Pankhurst have faught for women's rights in a male dominated society. Yet just as they are finally achieving parity they are hit with all this gender nonsense which seems to have cancelled common sense and is absolutely trashing women's rights. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Mar 16, 2024 20:03:40 GMT
I don't think the trans debate is "left wing populism" at all. It is fundamentally about basic human rights. But let me be specific here so I am not misunderstood. I am perfectly happy for someone to identify as the opposite sex if they are going through the gender reassignment process. Once they have done so I am perfectly OK with them asking to be called by different pronouns, as long as they understand sometimes people will make mistakes. My reluctance comes with the issue of "private spaces" - public bathrooms, where I feel biological women have a right to ask for gender reassigned women to be excluded; I also have an issue with male-to-female transgender people being able to compete in female sports, where they have a clear and distinct advantage, unless they transitioned pre-puberty (using Puberty Blockers). I am yet to see evidence of significant numbers of right-wing commentators / supporters on forums and social media NOT blaming Immigrants, the EU / Not-Brexit, or "The Woke"; your experience may of course be different. All The Best The so called 'Trans debate' is very much trendy left wing populism imported from the US. You start by saying it's about basic human rights, then say biological women, should have their own spaces, how very understanding of you. Personally and call me picky, but I would describe 'biological' women as real women who since the days of Emmeline Pankhurst have faught for women's rights in a male dominated society. Yet just as they are finally achieving parity they are hit with all this gender nonsense which seems to have cancelled common sense and is absolutely trashing women's rights. Which is why I said elsewhere that we should do away with the lot and simply have "Person" rights and bin all this womens/gay/trans etc. nonsense. Oh yeah, and unisex (or should that be multisex?) bogs. There, sorted. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Mar 16, 2024 20:18:39 GMT
Did I say that? No, I didn't. You just imagined it. All The Best It was a question and one you failed to answer. This could be because it doesn't require justification, only total obedience or else the state will punish them. Well, if you have any evidence of people being sent to prison for not calling a man a woman I'll take a look and, where necessary, re-evaluate my position. However, I won't be even remotely shocked if you can't present even one piece of evidence. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Mar 16, 2024 20:21:19 GMT
I don't think the trans debate is "left wing populism" at all. It is fundamentally about basic human rights. But let me be specific here so I am not misunderstood. I am perfectly happy for someone to identify as the opposite sex if they are going through the gender reassignment process. Once they have done so I am perfectly OK with them asking to be called by different pronouns, as long as they understand sometimes people will make mistakes. My reluctance comes with the issue of "private spaces" - public bathrooms, where I feel biological women have a right to ask for gender reassigned women to be excluded; I also have an issue with male-to-female transgender people being able to compete in female sports, where they have a clear and distinct advantage, unless they transitioned pre-puberty (using Puberty Blockers). I am yet to see evidence of significant numbers of right-wing commentators / supporters on forums and social media NOT blaming Immigrants, the EU / Not-Brexit, or "The Woke"; your experience may of course be different. All The Best The so called 'Trans debate' is very much trendy left wing populism imported from the US. You start by saying it's about basic human rights, then say biological women, should have their own spaces, how very understanding of you. Personally and call me picky, but I would describe 'biological' women as real women who since the days of Emmeline Pankhurst have faught for women's rights in a male dominated society. Yet just as they are finally achieving parity they are hit with all this gender nonsense which seems to have cancelled common sense and is absolutely trashing women's rights. ^ in total agreement with you. Extending full citizen rights to trans-people can NOT come at the cost of eroding or undermining women's rights. Of course, ensuring that happens is not going to be easy, either legally or logistically. All The Best |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 16, 2024 20:24:12 GMT
It was a question and one you failed to answer. This could be because it doesn't require justification, only total obedience or else the state will punish them. Well, if you have any evidence of people being sent to prison for not calling a man a woman I'll take a look and, where necessary, re-evaluate my position. However, I won't be even remotely shocked if you can't present even one piece of evidence. All The Best As far as I know it could be seen as a microagressions which would reduce the ability to be employed in some areas and afaik it has been an issue in schools, universities and NHS establishments. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Mar 16, 2024 20:35:24 GMT
Well, if you have any evidence of people being sent to prison for not calling a man a woman I'll take a look and, where necessary, re-evaluate my position. However, I won't be even remotely shocked if you can't present even one piece of evidence. All The Best As far as I know it could be seen as a microagressions which would reduce the ability to be employed in some areas and afaik it has been an issue in schools, universities and NHS establishments. I am willing to bet a £5 to any registered charity that there is not one single case in the UK of anyone ever being jailed for not calling a man a woman. Which is exactly what B-4 claimed here: ukpoliticsdebate.boards.net/post/217721All The Best |
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