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Post by jaydee on Mar 17, 2024 8:17:35 GMT
I wonder if the Snats will be following Sinn Fein's lead in refusing to represent their constituents in Parliament while still continuing to trouser their emoluments? You mean like the English fascist squatting in Number 10. Being bankrolled by racists.. You will be telling me next the subsidy junkies south of the border pay their way in the UK.
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Post by happyjack on Mar 17, 2024 10:34:00 GMT
They not only pay their own way in the UK but, as GERS reports repeatedly demonstrate, they pay a large chunk of our way too.
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Post by morayloon on Mar 18, 2024 0:01:22 GMT
They not only pay their own way in the UK but, as GERS reports repeatedly demonstrate, they pay a large chunk of our way too. And as you have so often shown, you know SFA about GERS!!!
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Post by happyjack on Mar 18, 2024 4:05:58 GMT
If that is the case then neither does the SNP nor the Greens nor, for that matter, the SNP/Green ScotGov because their understanding of GERS seems to very much align with mine. But hey, I understand that you must go on denying reality and ignoring inconvenient truths because to do anything else would mean admitting to yourself that you have squandered so much of your life pursuing a negative and damaging course of action for Scotland and its people.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2024 7:22:52 GMT
They're proud anti-English racists. They kept safe houses in Scotland for IRA terrorists. I have no doubt Islamist terrorists also hold up there. They should be thrown out of the Union. For the many, not the few.
EDIT: Grass is green.
Scotland appears to be full of anti-English racists now. The IRA/SNP rely on them.
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Post by morayloon on Mar 18, 2024 7:52:35 GMT
They're proud anti-English racists. They kept safe houses in Scotland for IRA terrorists. I have no doubt Islamist terrorists also hold up there. They should be thrown out of the Union. For the many, not the few. What utter bollocks, as per usual. I would ask for evidence of this but know full well that you can't come up with anything.
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Post by morayloon on Mar 18, 2024 8:47:04 GMT
If that is the case then neither does the SNP nor the Greens nor, for that matter, the SNP/Green ScotGov because their understanding of GERS seems to very much align with mine. But hey, I understand that you must go on denying reality and ignoring inconvenient truths because to do anything else would mean admitting to yourself that you have squandered so much of your life pursuing a negative for Scotland and irs people. Reality passed you by long ago. Your lack of understanding shines through yet again. The only part of GERS that is down to ScotGov relates to devolved matters, and they have to balance the books. A financial penalty would be imposed if they overspent. The rest of GERS relates to retained matters and those figures are down to the UK Government. Much of the statistics provided are guesswork. No details are available for the nations and English regions because, basically, they don't break the figures down to that level. Scotland provides most of the UKs energy requirements - wind, hydro and other renewables. Not forgetting oil & gas. Yet we pay the highest bills. Scotland has more water than any other UK country (indeed they say thee is more water in Loch Ness than is available in England). They will probably try to do a Welsh water robbery: remember the reaction to the drowning of the village of Capel Celyn in order to provide water for Liverpool? Hopefully, there will be a reaction in Scotland if yet another attempt to steal our resources is made. I really could go on. But, you can get the gist of what I am saying. England needs Scotland. If that was not the case why the hell did the UK Government fight tooth & nail to keep us imprisoned. However much the gullible believe in GERS, and try to perpetuate the myth that England subsidises Scotland, the fact is that that is not the case. Finally, even if there was a grain of truth surrounding Westminster's figures, the fact is that the exercise in no way reflects how an Independent Scotland would operate and succeed. In other words, it reflects how an imprisoned Scotland is, and always has been, treated since 1707!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2024 9:31:50 GMT
Scotland has always been subsidised. The Tories have always been Unionists.
The reason Scotland is in the Union is because Scotland wanted it and continued to vote for it. If England was offered the vote on a Union with anti-English racists then I'm sure, with accurate information, we'd all vote against it.
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 18, 2024 9:50:54 GMT
The Scotch will never vote for independence. Even if they ever get as far as another Indyref, once in the privacy of the voting booth all the romanticism and Braveheart braggadocio will evaporate and, just like last time, pragmatism will trump emotion.
Unfortunately.
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Post by happyjack on Mar 18, 2024 10:19:09 GMT
Posted in error.
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Post by happyjack on Mar 18, 2024 10:30:37 GMT
Scotland has always been subsidised. That’s simply not true. The phenomenon of Scottish fiscal dependency is relatively new. Throughout the 19th and for the much of the 20th century, Scotland contributed more than its fair share to the industrialised UK economy and to the Treaury’s coffers.. The problem is that the world in which Scotland was able to thrive no longer exists and the post-industrial world that we now live in and into which a newly independent Scotland would emerge is not one for which Scotland appears to be well placed to take advantage of and thrive in. If it were then it would already be doing so.
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Post by happyjack on Mar 18, 2024 11:29:49 GMT
If that is the case then neither does the SNP nor the Greens nor, for that matter, the SNP/Green ScotGov because their understanding of GERS seems to very much align with mine. But hey, I understand that you must go on denying reality and ignoring inconvenient truths because to do anything else would mean admitting to yourself that you have squandered so much of your life pursuing a negative for Scotland and irs people. Reality passed you by long ago. Your lack of understanding shines through yet again. and yet, as I have already pointed out, my understanding of GERS aligns with that of the SNP and of the Greens and of the SNP/Green ScotGov. Why don’t you tell us what it is about GERS that they don’t understand.
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Post by happyjack on Mar 18, 2024 11:41:55 GMT
If that is the case then neither does the SNP nor the Greens nor, for that matter, the SNP/Green ScotGov because their understanding of GERS seems to very much align with mine. But hey, I understand that you must go on denying reality and ignoring inconvenient truths because to do anything else would mean admitting to yourself that you have squandered so much of your life pursuing a negative for Scotland and irs people. Reality passed you by long ago. Your lack of understanding shines through yet again. The only part of GERS that is down to ScotGov relates to devolved matters, and they have to balance the books. A financial penalty would be imposed if they overspent. The rest of GERS relates to retained matters and those figures are down to the UK Government. Much of the statistics provided are guesswork. No details are available for the nations and English regions because, basically, they don't break the figures down to that level. Scotland provides most of the UKs energy requirements - wind, hydro and other renewables. Not forgetting oil & gas. Yet we pay the highest bills. Scotland has more water than any other UK country (indeed they say thee is more water in Loch Ness than is available in England). They will probably try to do a Welsh water robbery: remember the reaction to the drowning of the village of Capel Celyn in order to provide water for Liverpool? Hopefully, there will be a reaction in Scotland if yet another attempt to steal our resources is made. I really could go on. But, you can get the gist of what I am saying. England needs Scotland. If that was not the case why the hell did the UK Government fight tooth & nail to keep us imprisoned. However much the gullible believe in GERS, and try to perpetuate the myth that England subsidises Scotland, the fact is that that is not the case. Finally, even if there was a grain of truth surrounding Westminster's figures, the fact is that the exercise in no way reflects how an Independent Scotland would operate and succeed. In other words, it reflects how an imprisoned Scotland is, and always has been, treated since 1707! That is just embarrassing self-pitying bluster almost all of which, whether true or not, has nothing to do with GERS. All that GERS does is report on Scotland’s fiscal performance in a given year i.e. how much the Scottish economy raised in revenue in that period, how much public expenditure Scotland enjoyed over that same period and therefore, by deducting one from the other, how much Scotland relied upon England to prop it up. It has nothing to do with whether or not ScotGov’s remit is only in devolved matters, or whether or not ScotGov has to balance the books, or whether or not Scotland provides most of the UK’s energy requirements yet pays the highest energy bills, or whether or not Scotland has more water than the rest of the UK, or whether or not you could go on and provide more irrelevant, suspect and highly-selective bluster. England does not need Scotland and Scotland does not need England. Both would survive without the other. However, as GERS helps to demonstrate and for as long as the fiscal deficit remains the norm, Scotland would be worse off without England whereas England would be better off without Scotland. Your final paragraph is really the only one that contains anything remotely relevant, although even that is hard to spot as it is wrapped up in your usual self-pitying and self-deceiving nonsense. You are correct to say that GERS does not reflect how an independent Scotland would operate and succeed; it is not designed to do so therefore it would be strange to claim that it did. However, far from showing how an Independent Scotland might succeed, it throws the question of whether an independent Scotland could succeed (if success is measured in economic and fiscal terms and if success means doing discernibly better outside of the UK than within it) into serious doubt. What it does tell us is how big Scotland’s notional fiscal deficit is at present and therefore how big an actual fiscal gap the government of a newly independent Scotland would immediately have to close - and keep closed, year after year, on an ongoing basis. Given the scale of that gap that would either result in unbearably high tax hikes or brutally diminished public services - or, more likely, a mixture of the two. And that is only to cover the current fiscal gap, of course. There would also be the inevitable establishment costs and the detrimental knock on financial consequences of independence and of operating a high tax/low amenities economy to address as well, putting further pressure on our fiscal situation and leading to even more tax hikes or public service cuts, which would further depress our economy and therefore result in yet another wave of tax hikes and service cuts, and so on and so on until the whole initial shock of the harm that we had inflicted upon ourselves by going it alone finally bottomed out. The inevitable implications of all of this would be hyper-austerity and decades of unbearable and unnecessary hardship, blighting the lives of several generations of Scots until the fall-out dust of independence finally settled - and for what? In all probability we would find ourselves no better off, and probably worse off, than we would have been if we had just stayed in the UK and avoided all of those bleak decades and lost generations in the first place. However, so long as it satisfies the cravings of the thinly veiled anti-English bigots amongst us then all of that would be a price worth paying, wouldn’t it?
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Post by morayloon on Mar 18, 2024 14:43:34 GMT
They're proud anti-English racists. They kept safe houses in Scotland for IRA terrorists. I have no doubt Islamist terrorists also hold up there. They should be thrown out of the Union. For the many, not the few.
EDIT: Grass is green.
Scotland appears to be full of anti-English racists now. The IRA/SNP rely on them.
1. Nobody has said there is no Anglophobic sentiments in Scotland, but you claim the SNP are intrinsically anti-English. The Moray Council statement does not mention the SNP. Try again. Anti-English feeling in the Moray area is understandable given the large English presence in the county because of RAF Lossie and the army base at Kinloss. Large parts of rural Moray have been taken over by immigrants. They buy up housing at inflated prices that locals cannot match, and then they don't live there on a permanent basis. 2. The West coast and Glasgow areas where thousands of people claim Irish, Catholic, roots, is no different to American Republican sympathisers who also fund raised etc. for the IRA. 3. The IRA never attacked Scotland probably because they perceived all the woes meted out to the indigenous Irish population was basically down to the English.
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Post by om15 on Mar 18, 2024 14:58:21 GMT
Didn't use to be in the seventies, I never saw any of it, it is all a modern thing fired up by the SNP, I was there 70-73 and again in 76, it was a very relaxed and cosmopolitan place, the RAF bases provided much direct employment and work for local companies. Why would that cause anti English feeling?
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