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Post by dodgydave on Feb 14, 2024 17:38:56 GMT
I was surprised to learn that 25% - 33% (depending on the source) of scientists believe the universe was created, rather than just appeared from nothing.
As a result, I went down the YouTube rabbit hole, read articles online, and noticed that atheist arguments seem to mostly revolve around the rejection of organised religion. I listened to some scientists argue that mathematics feels to them like an instruction manual on the universe, and if that is the case who created the manual?
I thought I was an atheist, but now I am not so sure. I think organised religion is made up mumbo jumbo designed to control people, but the idea of a creator can be separate from that. One thing is for sure, thinking about this makes my brain hurts!
Did something create the universe, or did the universe appear from nothing?
(This isn't a who is right question, christians, muslims, hindus etc or atheists)
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Post by jonksy on Feb 14, 2024 17:52:30 GMT
I was surprised to learn that 25% - 33% (depending on the source) of scientists believe the universe was created, rather than just appeared from nothing. As a result, I went down the YouTube rabbit hole, read articles online, and noticed that atheist arguments seem to mostly revolve around the rejection of organised religion. I listened to some scientists argue that mathematics feels to them like an instruction manual on the universe, and if that is the case who created the manual? I thought I was an atheist, but now I am not so sure. I think organised religion is made up mumbo jumbo designed to control people, but the idea of a creator can be separate from that. One thing is for sure, thinking about this makes my brain hurts! Did something create the universe, or did the universe appear from nothing? (This isn't a who is right question, christians, muslims, hindus etc or atheists) My own personal view Dave is that the big bang theory seems more likely....I am also an atheist BTW...
Big Bang Cosmology....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2024 18:09:18 GMT
I'm a believer in a creator. I don't have any problem with it at all. Theories are one thing, but they are theories.
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Post by Orac on Feb 14, 2024 18:18:54 GMT
I think atheism is a social / identity thing and, to a large degree, so is religion.
Are people really, really atheists? I have my doubts. I was never really an 'atheist in my heart' even when i claimed to be one.
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Post by wapentake on Feb 14, 2024 18:26:08 GMT
I'm a believer in a creator. I don't have any problem with it at all. Theories are one thing, but they are theories. Well as someone said each to their own and that’s how it should be. Apparently though you can’t sing religious stuff outside church grounds,not in London anyway you might get arrested (worlds gone mad)
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Post by jonksy on Feb 14, 2024 18:30:02 GMT
I'm a believer in a creator. I don't have any problem with it at all. Theories are one thing, but they are theories. The thing I question black and white, is if the universe was created why is it still expanding? Surely a creation would remain static in size...
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Post by wapentake on Feb 14, 2024 18:47:27 GMT
I think atheism is a social / identity thing and, to a large degree, so is religion. Are people really, really atheists? I have my doubts. I was never really an 'atheist in my heart' even when i claimed to be one. My family are in the main quite religious I’m not,my old dad was brought up strict Methodist he joined the forces and had to kill people and they tried to kill him. He always said you only live once and when you’re dead you’re dead that’s it there’s nothing so make the best of and I believe that too, but he did say always try to do what’s right and I try my best but don’t always succeed.
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Post by Scoffer on Feb 14, 2024 19:24:15 GMT
Maybe whatever the constituent parts of the universe are have always been there continually moving apart and coalescing as they react on each other.
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Post by Ripley on Feb 14, 2024 19:34:23 GMT
I'm a believer in a creator. I don't have any problem with it at all. Theories are one thing, but they are theories. The thing I question black and white, is if the universe was created why is it still expanding? Surely a creation would remain static in size... I'm an atheist so I'm not arguing for a deity, but logically, surely the question of what can expand depends on the materials used and on the conditions in which those materials are used? And why could a 'creator' not use those materials and exploit those conditions?
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Post by jonksy on Feb 14, 2024 19:41:22 GMT
The thing I question black and white, is if the universe was created why is it still expanding? Surely a creation would remain static in size... I'm an atheist so I'm not arguing for a deity, but logically, surely the question of what can expand depends on the materials used and on the conditions in which those materials are used? And why could a 'creator' not use those materials and exploit those conditions? There is that of course. And also there is a total lack of gravity....I am not sure why a creator would want to exploit those materials as they would not exist until the creation.. if we as humans create or build something it remains static in size...
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Post by dappy on Feb 14, 2024 19:55:00 GMT
I would say I am more of an agnostic than an atheist. Atheism implies certainty and seems to almost be a religion in itself. I suspect we are the result of a cosmic cockup rather than some planned creation but don’t know for sure and honestly don’t much care.
The rules of religions are intended to provide a framework for how society can run along together - while details vary by religion, the underlying concepts are similar - and generally are not a bad set of rules to live by with some rules now feeling outdated. For example it is sensible for Muslim people to bury their dead more quickly than Christians because Islam is more prevalent in hit countries where bodies spread infection more quickly than more temperate countries.
Organised religion is a form of controlling the masses. It does however provide a sense of unity and a supporting community that those of us not religious sometimes lack.
Too many people seem to want to win arguments and prove they are right. If you want to be religious of whatever faith, that’s cool. If you want to be athiest that’s cool too. Just don’t try to persuade me to be the same or tell me I’m wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2024 20:59:10 GMT
Atheism implies certainty and seems to almost be a religion in itself. Atheist = indifference. Rejects the belief without any certainties.
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Post by Ripley on Feb 14, 2024 21:06:30 GMT
I'm an atheist so I'm not arguing for a deity, but logically, surely the question of what can expand depends on the materials used and on the conditions in which those materials are used? And why could a 'creator' not use those materials and exploit those conditions? There is that of course. And also there is a total lack of gravity....I am not sure why a creator would want to exploit those materials as they would not exist until the creation.. if we as humans create or build something it remains static in size... You've never baked a cake or a loaf of bread or worked with puff pastry, then?
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Post by dappy on Feb 14, 2024 21:12:20 GMT
Atheism implies certainty and seems to almost be a religion in itself. Atheist = indifference. Rejects the belief without any certainties. No that is factually wrong. Atheism rejects the belief with certainty. They believe there is no god with the same certainty that say Christians believe there is a god. It’s effectively another religion in itself. It is Agnostics that tend to reject belief without being certain and aren’t overly bothered anyway. I am largely Agnostic.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Feb 14, 2024 21:14:53 GMT
I was surprised to learn that 25% - 33% (depending on the source) of scientists believe the universe was created, rather than just appeared from nothing. As a result, I went down the YouTube rabbit hole, read articles online, and noticed that atheist arguments seem to mostly revolve around the rejection of organised religion. I listened to some scientists argue that mathematics feels to them like an instruction manual on the universe, and if that is the case who created the manual? I thought I was an atheist, but now I am not so sure. I think organised religion is made up mumbo jumbo designed to control people, but the idea of a creator can be separate from that. One thing is for sure, thinking about this makes my brain hurts! Did something create the universe, or did the universe appear from nothing? (This isn't a who is right question, christians, muslims, hindus etc or atheists) It's only once you start doing real maths, do you get what maths is about. It starts to get really fascinating and the further you go the more incredible it appear. I can well understand their view and have had a similar view myself. Going back to the bible, those things in the bible carry a huge amount of wisdom that we should ignore at our peril. Imagine sociology was like a huge computer program running and its like stuff the bible forbids are like programs that act as viruses, e.g. homosexuality or war as two examples of destructive behaviour. Life only functions within certain boundaries.
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