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Post by Ripley on Feb 14, 2024 23:29:31 GMT
I can see that several of you are conforming to my original point. You are telling us that you don't believe in a god because you don't believe parts of the bible. Forget the bible, forget comfort in there being an almighty, forget organised religion. Do you think the universe was created by something, or do you think it came from nothing? It is incomprehensible to the human mind,so god was invented. A good point. The creation myths and etiological myths of the ancient Greeks come to mind. The ancients did not know that the earth is tilted on its axis, for example, which is what creates the seasons, so they invented the myth of Demeter and Persephone to explain the otherwise inexplicable. |
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Feb 14, 2024 23:33:45 GMT
An acquaintance of mine invited me to his house for a meal. After the meal he began telling me about Jesus. His 5 year old son was playing with his toys in the room. He suddenly got up, stood between us, and said to his father: "You're only saying that!" He then turned to me and said: "He's only saying that!" ... then went back to playing with his toys.
Now when people rabbit on about their beliefs I sometimes say to them: "You're only saying that".
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Post by Bentley on Feb 14, 2024 23:36:53 GMT
An acquaintance of mine invited me to house for a meal. After the meal he began telling me about Jesus. His 5 year old son was playing with his toys in the room. He suddenly got up, stood between us, and said to his father: "You're only saying that!" He then turned to me and said: "He's only saying that!" ... then went back to playing with his toys. Now when people rabbit on about their beliefs I sometimes say to them: "You're only saying that!" You’re only saying that . |
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Post by Ripley on Feb 14, 2024 23:42:04 GMT
The Epicurus Paradox:
If a god knows everything and has unlimited power, then they have knowledge of all evil and have the power to put an end to it. But if they do not end it, they are not completely benevolent.
If a god has unlimited power and is completely good, then they have the power to extinguish evil and want to extinguish it. But if they do not do it, their knowledge of evil is limited, so they are not all-knowing.
If a god is all-knowing and totally good, then they know of all the evil that exists and wants to change it. But if they do not, which must be because they are not capable of changing it, so they are not omnipotent.
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Post by Orac on Feb 15, 2024 0:36:12 GMT
From god's perspective perhaps there is no such thing as change.
The bible story is that man started in a perfect realm, but implicitly rejected that offer in exchange for knowledge (or something - i'm vague on the detail)
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Post by dodgydave on Feb 15, 2024 11:26:03 GMT
The Epicurus Paradox: If a god knows everything and has unlimited power, then they have knowledge of all evil and have the power to put an end to it. But if they do not end it, they are not completely benevolent. If a god has unlimited power and is completely good, then they have the power to extinguish evil and want to extinguish it. But if they do not do it, their knowledge of evil is limited, so they are not all-knowing. If a god is all-knowing and totally good, then they know of all the evil that exists and wants to change it. But if they do not, which must be because they are not capable of changing it, so they are not omnipotent. ...or good and evil are just a human construct that doesn't actually exist. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Feb 15, 2024 12:12:18 GMT
...As a result, I went down the YouTube rabbit hole, read articles online, and noticed that atheist arguments seem to mostly revolve around the rejection of organised religion. I listened to some scientists argue that mathematics feels to them like an instruction manual on the universe, and if that is the case who created the manual? I thought I was an atheist, but now I am not so sure. I think organised religion is made up mumbo jumbo designed to control people, but the idea of a creator can be separate from that... I was having this debate with a very religious colleague the other day. He claimed that there is clear evidence of design and that he therefore believes in a creator. I don't disagree, but I pointed out that such a creator doesn't require religion. Organised religion is of course about control but I see no reason why The Creator (if such exists) would be religious or indeed care about us at all. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 15, 2024 12:16:16 GMT
...As a result, I went down the YouTube rabbit hole, read articles online, and noticed that atheist arguments seem to mostly revolve around the rejection of organised religion. I listened to some scientists argue that mathematics feels to them like an instruction manual on the universe, and if that is the case who created the manual? I thought I was an atheist, but now I am not so sure. I think organised religion is made up mumbo jumbo designed to control people, but the idea of a creator can be separate from that... I was having this debate with a very religious colleague the other day. He claimed that there is clear evidence of design and that he therefore believes in a creator. I don't disagree, but I pointed out that such a creator doesn't require religion. Organised religion is of course about control but I see no reason why The Creator (if such exists) would be religious or indeed care about us at all. Deism? |
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Post by Ripley on Feb 15, 2024 15:48:18 GMT
The Epicurus Paradox: If a god knows everything and has unlimited power, then they have knowledge of all evil and have the power to put an end to it. But if they do not end it, they are not completely benevolent. If a god has unlimited power and is completely good, then they have the power to extinguish evil and want to extinguish it. But if they do not do it, their knowledge of evil is limited, so they are not all-knowing. If a god is all-knowing and totally good, then they know of all the evil that exists and wants to change it. But if they do not, which must be because they are not capable of changing it, so they are not omnipotent. ...or good and evil are just a human construct that doesn't actually exist. That's an interesting topic all by itself, how guilt culture replaced honour culture. |
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Post by see2 on Feb 15, 2024 19:59:57 GMT
I can see that several of you are conforming to my original point. You are telling us that you don't believe in a god because you don't believe parts of the bible. Forget the bible, forget comfort in there being an almighty, forget organised religion. Do you think the universe was created by something, or do you think it came from nothing? Obviously, apart from personal opinions, no one knows the actual answer to that question. If there was nothing to begin with, a God would have to start by creating itself, out of nothing. Hmm. |
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Post by dodgydave on Feb 16, 2024 14:43:43 GMT
I can see that several of you are conforming to my original point. You are telling us that you don't believe in a god because you don't believe parts of the bible. Forget the bible, forget comfort in there being an almighty, forget organised religion. Do you think the universe was created by something, or do you think it came from nothing? Obviously, apart from personal opinions, no one knows the actual answer to that question. If there was nothing to begin with, a God would have to start by creating itself, out of nothing. Hmm. That's a slightly different question. The question is really do you think the universe that we live in was created, or came from nothing? You are made up of seven billion billion billion atoms that decide to hang around together, can that really be as a result of enough random events happening over billions of years? BTW I don't believe in organised religion, partly because I think humans will evolve into something else given time. Yet mathematics will stay the same, which suggests other things at work. |
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Feb 16, 2024 20:34:21 GMT
I have no issue with anyone believing whatever they want to believe. But, yes there's always a but lol... As an intelligent person how do you square the 'six days of creation', do you really think a god made everything in six days? Also, science says Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, yet the bible says it's 6000 years old. I appreciate religion brings some people such as yourself, a modicum of comfort and there's nothing wrong with that. But is there a difference between someone who goes to church because he enjoys being a part of the club, and someone who implicitly believes the bible and that science is wrong. Don't patronise me. Yes, I believe God did the creation in 6 days. Can you prove the 6 days of creation did not happen? Nowhere does the Bible say the Earth is 6000 years old, I told you that in a previous thread and you obviously didn't take that one in. Presumably the information about the fact that God did the creation 6 days came from God himself ... why would he bother to tell mankind this? Isn't it more likely that this is just one of the numerous creation myths concocted by man? If God exists and he created the Universe anything other than just "calling it into being" instantaneously shows that there is a limit to his power. My creation myth is that God did indeed create the universe, called it into being .. "Just like that". He then went off to other parts of the heavens to create other universes ... taking no further interest in the one he created for us. We are free to do what we want with it. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 17, 2024 7:15:39 GMT
The great library of Alexandria must have been full to the brim of knowedge from the past civilisation. No doubt that is why Alexa was named such.
The hundreds of badly barbecued scrolls unlocking the secrets of the ancient world - thanks to modern British ingenuity...... Well, folks, it looks as though we have cracked it at last. With the help of British technology and Artificial Intelligence, we have found a way of deciphering the scrolls of Herculaneum. If the scientists are right, we are on the verge of an epoch-making discovery. It appears that we now have the technology to negate the catastrophic damage done to these frail papyri – almost 2,000 years ago – by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius. www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-13092155/BORIS-JOHNSON-vital-AI-translate-scrolls-Herculaneum.html |
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Post by dodgydave on Feb 19, 2024 1:54:34 GMT
The great library of Alexandria must have been full to the brim of knowedge from the past civilisation. No doubt that is why Alexa was named such.
The hundreds of badly barbecued scrolls unlocking the secrets of the ancient world - thanks to modern British ingenuity...... Well, folks, it looks as though we have cracked it at last. With the help of British technology and Artificial Intelligence, we have found a way of deciphering the scrolls of Herculaneum. If the scientists are right, we are on the verge of an epoch-making discovery. It appears that we now have the technology to negate the catastrophic damage done to these frail papyri – almost 2,000 years ago – by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius. www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-13092155/BORIS-JOHNSON-vital-AI-translate-scrolls-Herculaneum.htmlJudging from what I have seen of the Romans they are probably inventories of what goods and slaves they owned, and mucky stories. |
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Post by see2 on Feb 19, 2024 9:24:51 GMT
From god's perspective perhaps there is no such thing as change. The bible story is that man started in a perfect realm, but implicitly rejected that offer in exchange for knowledge (or something - i'm vague on the detail) Yes, naked as the day he was born in the garden of Eden. It seems that Paradise is a wonderful place where all are naked, and all mans needs are met, until he sampled sex. Or something like that. |
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