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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2023 19:01:59 GMT
It would be perfect. I have been asking for that forever. Application points outside the UK. At the moment the only way you can apply is by smuggling yourself into the country. That was another 'clever' idea designed to put off applicants. The refugee scheme is not to help economic migrants it is to help people who are fleeing war and danger and as it was signed in 1951 that was the time when the bulk of refugees were in Europe and from Europe and in which the UK had taken in many thousands. Many refugees were dispossessed peoples and were Jews in European camps immediately post war, most of whom just wanted to travel to the ME specifically to what would become Israel. Strangely enough the Arabs did not want them and most went illegally. We see how that worked out for the ME. So it was not a 'clever idea' it was dealing with realities at the time. Who said it was or that this is what I wanted (Are you secretly Orac?) My idea is not that different to Rwanda. You go and apply in XX without coming to the UK and in XX you stay until you get asylum, assuming you ever do. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 15, 2023 19:16:00 GMT
The refugee scheme is not to help economic migrants it is to help people who are fleeing war and danger and as it was signed in 1951 that was the time when the bulk of refugees were in Europe and from Europe and in which the UK had taken in many thousands. Many refugees were dispossessed peoples and were Jews in European camps immediately post war, most of whom just wanted to travel to the ME specifically to what would become Israel. Strangely enough the Arabs did not want them and most went illegally. We see how that worked out for the ME. So it was not a 'clever idea' it was dealing with realities at the time. Who said it was or that this is what I wanted (Are you secretly Orac?) My idea is not that different to Rwanda. You go and apply in XX without coming to the UK and in XX you stay until you get asylum, assuming you ever do. You said applying in the country you reach was a clever idea to put off applicants, it was not, it was sensible condition to keep numbers under some form of control and at the time most refugees were in Europe. If one allows application to be made anywhere then Europe would be flooded with applications many from counties just trying to get rid of their overspill population. The Rwanda plan is a pretty useless plan but it is a pretty useless island in a sea of complete uselessness. We do not need tinkering we need decisive action otherwise we go under and we are indeed sinking.Another 6 months down the line and we have many thousands more, if April comes with no flights it will be another year older and deeper in the mire of another year of imports. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2023 19:23:27 GMT
The refugee scheme is not to help economic migrants it is to help people who are fleeing war and danger and as it was signed in 1951 that was the time when the bulk of refugees were in Europe and from Europe and in which the UK had taken in many thousands. Many refugees were dispossessed peoples and were Jews in European camps immediately post war, most of whom just wanted to travel to the ME specifically to what would become Israel. Strangely enough the Arabs did not want them and most went illegally. We see how that worked out for the ME. So it was not a 'clever idea' it was dealing with realities at the time. Who said it was or that this is what I wanted ( Are you secretly Orac?) My idea is not that different to Rwanda. You go and apply in XX without coming to the UK and in XX you stay until you get asylum, assuming you ever do. Even suggesting such a thing breaks the rules on here, or so I have been told by the more authoritarian on this board.
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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2023 19:26:09 GMT
Who said it was or that this is what I wanted (Are you secretly Orac?) My idea is not that different to Rwanda. You go and apply in XX without coming to the UK and in XX you stay until you get asylum, assuming you ever do. You said applying in the country you reach was a clever idea to put off applicants, it was not, it was sensible condition to keep numbers under some form of control and at the time most refugees were in Europe. If one allows application to be made anywhere then Europe would be flooded with applications many from counties just trying to get rid of their overspill population. The Rwanda plan is a pretty useless plan but it is a pretty useless island in a sea of complete uselessness. We do not need tinkering we need decisive action otherwise we go under and we are indeed sinking.Another 6 months down the line and we have many thousands more, if April comes with no flights it will be another year older and deeper in the mire of another year of imports. You do make me laugh. While endlessly complaining about the constant stream of asylum seekers crossing the channel, you also claim being able to apply in a nearby country wouldn't slow them. Surely your average displaced Somali would much rather pay a Trafficker £3,600,000 Shillings than travel to Rwanda to apply. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2023 19:27:47 GMT
Who said it was or that this is what I wanted ( Are you secretly Orac?) My idea is not that different to Rwanda. You go and apply in XX without coming to the UK and in XX you stay until you get asylum, assuming you ever do. Even suggesting such a thing breaks the rules on here, or so I have been told by the more authoritarian on this board.
Err no. We all know what you did back then. Though personally I believe you were a victim again. Poor thing. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 15, 2023 19:46:52 GMT
You said applying in the country you reach was a clever idea to put off applicants, it was not, it was sensible condition to keep numbers under some form of control and at the time most refugees were in Europe. If one allows application to be made anywhere then Europe would be flooded with applications many from counties just trying to get rid of their overspill population. The Rwanda plan is a pretty useless plan but it is a pretty useless island in a sea of complete uselessness. We do not need tinkering we need decisive action otherwise we go under and we are indeed sinking.Another 6 months down the line and we have many thousands more, if April comes with no flights it will be another year older and deeper in the mire of another year of imports. You do make me laugh. While endlessly complaining about the constant stream of asylum seekers crossing the channel, you also claim being able to apply in a nearby country wouldn't slow them. Surely your average displaced Somali would much rather pay a Trafficker £3,600,000 Shillings than travel to Rwanda to apply. It would slow down the stream actually crossing but it would greatly increase the numbers applying and if we apply the Convention strictly in accordance with the legal rules so far decided then we would probably have to grant a good proportion of them even if that is only 20% (20% of bloody millions is still bloody millions) If on the other hand we applied strict rules to claimants arriving and returned very quickly those failing, or lying, then we could slow the boats down as the balance between paying to reach England, and being returned from whence you came would be tipped greatly to the return side. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2023 20:02:23 GMT
You do make me laugh. While endlessly complaining about the constant stream of asylum seekers crossing the channel, you also claim being able to apply in a nearby country wouldn't slow them. Surely your average displaced Somali would much rather pay a Trafficker £3,600,000 Shillings than travel to Rwanda to apply. It would slow down the stream actually crossing but it would greatly increase the numbers applying and if we apply the Convention strictly in accordance with the legal rules so far decided then we would probably have to grant a good proportion of them even if that is only 20% (20% of bloody millions is still bloody millions) If on the other hand we applied strict rules to claimants arriving and returned very quickly those failing, or lying, then we could slow the boats down as the balance between paying to reach England, and being returned from whence you came would be tipped greatly to the return side. But they wouldn't be successful would they? they're economic migrants aren't they. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2023 20:46:36 GMT
Even suggesting such a thing breaks the rules on here, or so I have been told by the more authoritarian on this board.
Err no. We all know what you did back then. Though personally I believe you were a victim again. Poor thing. What a strange response to a perfectly valid heads up. Still, if you're suggesting the rules are subjective and used discriminatorily then you're probably right. I won't waste my time on what you meant by "what you did back then", because I know you enjoy smearing people. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 15, 2023 21:00:49 GMT
It would slow down the stream actually crossing but it would greatly increase the numbers applying and if we apply the Convention strictly in accordance with the legal rules so far decided then we would probably have to grant a good proportion of them even if that is only 20% (20% of bloody millions is still bloody millions) If on the other hand we applied strict rules to claimants arriving and returned very quickly those failing, or lying, then we could slow the boats down as the balance between paying to reach England, and being returned from whence you came would be tipped greatly to the return side. But they wouldn't be successful would they? they're economic migrants aren't they. They are mostly economic migrants but they are playing the system. The point was that if the current rules were applied strictly then many millions could apply and even if only 20% were successful millions could still be successful Let us say all gay people in Ghana applied and they would all be successful with the current laws there so that is a rough estimate of about half a million people from Ghana alone. We would be inundated with applications as it would be easy to apply. Leaving your home and travelling several thousand miles is some form of deterrent to most who feel unsafe in their own country, we need it to bea bigger deterrent We cannot take the world on our shoulders as we may eventually collapse under the strain |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2023 21:16:09 GMT
Err no. We all know what you did back then. Though personally I believe you were a victim again. Poor thing. What a strange response to a perfectly valid heads up. Still, if you're suggesting the rules are subjective and used discriminatorily then you're probably right. I won't waste my time on what you meant by "what you did back then", because I know you enjoy smearing people. Oh yes, they're always picking on you. God knows why. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2023 21:20:44 GMT
But they wouldn't be successful would they? they're economic migrants aren't they. They are mostly economic migrants but they are playing the system. The point was that if the current rules were applied strictly then many millions could apply and even if only 20% were successful millions could still be successful Let us say all gay people in Ghana applied and they would all be successful with the current laws there so that is a rough estimate of about half a million people from Ghana alone. We would be inundated with applications as it would be easy to apply. Leaving your home and travelling several thousand miles is some form of deterrent to most who feel unsafe in their own country, we need it to bea bigger deterrent We cannot take the world on our shoulders as we may eventually collapse under the strain Its not a lottery with X amount of winners |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2023 21:21:38 GMT
What a strange response to a perfectly valid heads up. Still, if you're suggesting the rules are subjective and used discriminatorily then you're probably right. I won't waste my time on what you meant by "what you did back then", because I know you enjoy smearing people. Oh yes, they're always picking on you. God knows why. I merely let you know that moderation relies on a set of rules where one is never to suggest sock-puppeting without proof. For some reason you take that as an excuse to lash out with yet more personal attacks. It could be white priviledge. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2023 21:22:39 GMT
But they wouldn't be successful would they? they're economic migrants aren't they. They are mostly economic migrants but they are playing the system. The point was that if the current rules were applied strictly then many millions could apply and even if only 20% were successful millions could still be successful Let us say all gay people in Ghana applied and they would all be successful with the current laws there so that is a rough estimate of about half a million people from Ghana alone. We would be inundated with applications as it would be easy to apply. Leaving your home and travelling several thousand miles is some form of deterrent to most who feel unsafe in their own country, we need it to bea bigger deterrent We cannot take the world on our shoulders as we may eventually collapse under the strainI'm sure this is the general idea. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 15, 2023 21:25:32 GMT
They are mostly economic migrants but they are playing the system. The point was that if the current rules were applied strictly then many millions could apply and even if only 20% were successful millions could still be successful Let us say all gay people in Ghana applied and they would all be successful with the current laws there so that is a rough estimate of about half a million people from Ghana alone. We would be inundated with applications as it would be easy to apply. Leaving your home and travelling several thousand miles is some form of deterrent to most who feel unsafe in their own country, we need it to bea bigger deterrent We cannot take the world on our shoulders as we may eventually collapse under the strain Its not a lottery with X amount of winners Well would all gay Ghanains have a sound case to seek asylum? I never said it was lottery but we have to consider in the round who would be eligible if we applied the rules strictly and allowed applications to be made outwith our borders. At the moment we feel like lottery winners if we get someone to leave. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 15, 2023 21:29:37 GMT
They are mostly economic migrants but they are playing the system. The point was that if the current rules were applied strictly then many millions could apply and even if only 20% were successful millions could still be successful Let us say all gay people in Ghana applied and they would all be successful with the current laws there so that is a rough estimate of about half a million people from Ghana alone. We would be inundated with applications as it would be easy to apply. Leaving your home and travelling several thousand miles is some form of deterrent to most who feel unsafe in their own country, we need it to bea bigger deterrent We cannot take the world on our shoulders as we may eventually collapse under the strainI'm sure this is the general idea. Given all the evidence it is hard now to believe that that is not the general idea. It is a strange world where we are told to cut our carbon emissions on the flimsiest of evidence yet when the evidence piles up that immigration is a major problem both in terms of societal cohesion and cost we get the oh conspiracy theory. |
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