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Post by Orac on Dec 2, 2023 11:44:25 GMT
If you really, really hate someone, insist they don't exist.
English is an ethnicity (among other things)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2023 11:49:47 GMT
Here is a picture of pure English culture, which many English people would mock or poke fun at, because Morris Dancing has long been the target of humourists and comedians. Yet these ancient English dances are more English than "Land Of Hope And Glory" or "Rule Brittania", and their origins are part of English history. CULTURE never stands still, it evolves, and culture is always changing, sometimes very slowly, sometimes quickly, and our culture does take on board aspects or bits from other cultures, and in such cases they then become part of our culture. Fish and Chips has its origins overseas, the fried fish from Jewish culture, the humble potato is South American, but the whole world sees Fish & Chips as British, or English. Christianity - an imported religion from the Middle East, a kind of off-shoot from Judaism, with various Pagan beliefs been the dominant belief previous to Christianity. Wave after wave of immigrants have always come to these shores, there are no British people without European or foreign DNA, not even in Wales. WHAT I DO UNDERSTAND is that many people do not like the idea of rapid change which can come from large scale immigration, or mass immigration from people with very different cultures, particularly if such people all settle in specific areas, thereby suddenly swamping an area. However, generally speaking, I cannot now imagine life without all the benefits that immigrants have brought to our culture and added to it. Whether it be the Italians with their Coffee Bars, Spaghetti and family ice cream businesses, or music influences from the Caibbean, or the curry houses which adorn our high streets. I move the motion that: English Culture is Tea, Coffee, Christianity, Fish & Chips, Northern Soul Music, Ginger Beer and CHristmas Cake - None of which have English origins.
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 2, 2023 11:52:08 GMT
Once again Sid, you demonstrate how much you are out of your depth in discussions on this sort of topic.
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Post by Cartertonian on Dec 2, 2023 12:00:57 GMT
Why don't you put us out of our misery and define 'Englishness' for us, Dan?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2023 12:12:50 GMT
If you really, really hate someone, insist they don't exist. English is an ethnicity (among other things) Their superiors in the Labour party claimed that there is no such thing as English. This was not an argument, it was the beginning of genocide. Today they're talking about DNA testing and still insisting there is no such thing, whilst expecting people to justify their existence. This dehumanising treatment is specific toward the English.
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Post by Vanna on Dec 2, 2023 12:14:02 GMT
Look it up on the net. There are many informative sites that will tell people who we were and who we are and what we created as typical of our folk. This includes certain lawmaking and observance, certain social mores and various classes of society with unifying aspects within the social fabric of Anglo-Saxon culture and heritage. Even our politics is democratic (All Thing heritage) and centred on justice for all. If you don't like us you are free to identify with anyone else you like. That is one of our typical aspects. We are tolerant of others. We are not tolerant of people telling us we do not exist or that if we do, we should alter ourselves to fit in with an establishment view of humanity that is basically anti-English.
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 2, 2023 12:16:30 GMT
Of course there is but it's not the sole definition of Englishness. Are you saying a kid with two English parents born and raised in France who's never step foot in England and doesn't speak a word of English is English? Because that's crackers. Your ethnic identity is something you inherit not something you can become.
You can't cast off your old one like an unwanted old pullover when you become tired of it, and take on a shiny new one just because you like it better.
How many people upon meeting him do you think would instantly recognise him as English? I have a very specific number in mind. Nobody is denying anyone their ethnic identity, I do think that practically speaking using it as the sole determining factor in deciding someone's national identity is nonsensical.
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 2, 2023 12:17:37 GMT
If you really, really hate someone, insist they don't exist. English is an ethnicity (among other things) Like people who insist English people of immigrant heritage don't exist you mean?
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 2, 2023 12:24:03 GMT
Go to a busy pub in England during an England game in next summer's Euros and shout out at the top of your voice that Jude Bellingham isn't England and shouldn't be playing for England. I dare you. That wouldn’t refute the premise . I think it does, nobody here is denying anyone their ethnic English identity, I am challenging people using it as a tool for exclusion, divisiveness and bullying.
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Post by Bentley on Dec 2, 2023 12:29:26 GMT
That wouldn’t refute the premise . I think it does, nobody here is denying anyone their ethnic English identity, I am challenging people using it as a tool for exclusion, divisiveness and bullying. That doesn’t refute the premise either . It’s a strawman .
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Post by Orac on Dec 2, 2023 12:30:32 GMT
If you really, really hate someone, insist they don't exist. English is an ethnicity (among other things) Like people who insist English people of immigrant heritage don't exist you mean? I've never met these people.
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Post by sheepy on Dec 2, 2023 12:30:49 GMT
I fancy utopia is not such an easy thing. In fact anyone who says it is, is a far right instigator of trouble.
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 2, 2023 12:39:31 GMT
A question for those who seek to deny someone their English identity because of their lack of ethnic purity.
What are the benefits of it?
For me someone of immigrant extraction who considers themselves English and proud is a good thing, good for social cohesion.
Telling them they aren't English because they don't qualify for your Volksgemeinschaft however, just seems to needlessly create division and hostility where there was none previously and harms social cohesion.
So what's the upside?
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Post by buccaneer on Dec 2, 2023 12:43:21 GMT
A question for those who seek to deny someone their English identity because of their lack of ethnic purity. What are the benefits of it? For me someone of immigrant extraction who considers themselves English and proud is a good thing, good for social cohesion. Telling them they aren't English because they don't qualify for your Volksgemeinschaft however, just seems to needlessly create division and hostility where there was none previously and harms social cohesion. So what's the upside? You speak about a 'good thing for social cohesion'; yet undermine that with your belief in the racist terminology of 'white privilege'. I think you want "social cohesion" on your terms, which if I may say do not look very cohesive at all. What is the upside of telling each and every white person in the UK they are privileged?
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 2, 2023 12:48:05 GMT
A question for those who seek to deny someone their English identity because of their lack of ethnic purity. What are the benefits of it? For me someone of immigrant extraction who considers themselves English and proud is a good thing, good for social cohesion. Telling them they aren't English because they don't qualify for your Volksgemeinschaft however, just seems to needlessly create division and hostility where there was none previously and harms social cohesion. So what's the upside? You speak about a 'good thing for social cohesion'; yet undermine that with your belief in the racist terminology of 'white privilege'. I think you want "social cohesion" on your terms, which if I may say do not look very cohesive at all. What is the upside of telling each and every white person in the UK they are privileged? You haven't answered my question.
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