Marches in support of a ceasefire in Gaza

Are the marchers calling on Hamas to release the hostages yet?

There are Arabs who want peace too, but the problem is too many do not. I think the atrocious Hamas attacks of October 7th which started off this latest round of mutual antagonism, and Israeli attacks on Gaza in response, have just ratcheted up the mutual animosity for each other on both sides to the point where fewer Israelis and Arabs want peace than ever before. 

But in the long term there will never be peace in the area unless the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza strip, and the Israelis can somehow learn to live in peace, each accepting the existence of the other, each allowing the other full sovereign rights. But this can only work if the Arab areas are not used as bases to attack Israel, which itself can only happen if the majority of Palestinian Arabs and their leaders want genuine peace based on a recognition of Israel's right to exist. In return for that Israel would probably have to give up the illegal settlements. Of course, they did that in Gaza and look what has happened. Which makes them less wiling to give up the settlements now.

The mutual animosity there makes peace impossible right now, but Israeli occupation of Arab areas as well as the land thefts, merely adds fuel to Arab animosity, making them still less minded to think of peace. And the likelihood of Arab extremists with some measure of hate-fuelled popular support, using such areas as bases to attack Israel if Israel withdraws - as has happened in Gaza - is unlikely to make Israel any more minded to end their occupations. 

In short peace looks impossible right now because the mutual goodwill and trust necessary for it is largely lacking on both sides.

Any eventual peace however can in theory come about in only one of four ways.

1. What the extremist Arabs want, for the Jews to leave the area entirely. This of course is never going to happen and whatever might have occurred in history, most Israeli people alive today were born there and have no other home. So eventual peace based on this solution would be wholly unjust and is surely never going to be achievable anyway.

2. The Arabs in the Gaza strip and West Bank themselves leave and make new homes in other Arab lands. Many on the far right of Israeli politics probably want that, but again most of the Arabs concerned were born where they are and know no other home, something they share with Israeli born Jews. And for the Arabs to leave anyway would require someone else willing to take them in. For one thing such a large influx of anti-Israel Arabs into another country might well have unpredictable and unwelcome impacts on the regional politics of the area.

So if we accept, as I think we must, that both Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs, have a right to be where they are, peace can only be built on either option 3 or option 4.

3. A two state solution, one for the Palestinian Arabs and one for the Israelis. This can only happen however if each state recognises the right of the other to exist, and neither uses its territory to be used as a base for launching attacks on the other. The fact that not enough people on both sides but particularly the Arab side have been willing to accept this has been the massive stumbling block so far.

4. A one state solution. The Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank and Jews and Arabs of Israel all living together in a single state all with equal rights. Problem with this idea is that it is utterly dependent upon both Jews and Arabs accepting each other as equals with a willingness to live together in peace. This does not look likely right now. The Jews of Israel are most reluctant to consider a one state solution through fears that the Arabs will outnumber them it it, and use their majority against the Jews in a very hostile way. And such potential Arab hostility is being so readily demonstrated all the time that Israeli fears on this score look entirely realistic.  So Israeli Jews will never concede this.

So we are in a bind. The least bad option really, the only viable option, for a long term peace that both sides could live with would be a two state solution. But both sides need to actually want that and want to make it work for this to even be viable. And too many on both sides are not willing to settle for that, especially right now.

So we are left with the near certainty of long term strife ongoing.

Compulsory purchase involves purchase and not theft. And trying to say that such compulsory purchase for HS2 is identical to people of one nation stealing the lands of another in defiance of international law is frankly a laughable argument to make. And one I need spend little further time pointing out the ridiculousness of. It does that for itself.

And saying the Israeli land thefts are okay because everyone else is doing it is as I have already stated one of the most childish justifications for a wrong that is imaginable.

And in Israel's case these land thefts have been constant and ongoing and conducive of much newsworthy strife in the area, and such an obstacle to peace, that it is inevitable that it will be a major topic of discussion amongst all people of goodwill. Where other land grabs are equally newsworthy and a threat to peace, ie in the Ukraine, it is a major issue of discussion as well. This is natural.

The reason that the left here is rather more vocal about the Israeli land thefts, than it is about the Ukraine, is that we all mostly tend to be on the same page in opposing Putin's land grabs. There are very few apologists for Russia here. But there are countless apologists for Israel here who need to be challenged. It is the very fact that many here are happy for Israel to do what they would condemn others doing that makes is such a totemic domestic political issue for the left.

Your own risible contributions with their laughable justifications for the indefensible themselves act to prove this point.

If I were to criticise Putin's land grab, you'd agree with me. End of debate.

Your reluctance to criticise Israel's - and feeble attempts to justify it - is what is making it such a live issue between you and I. The same holds true in the nation at large. Understand that, and you might begin to understand why the Israeli land thefts remain such a live issue for the left. And it is essentially because many on the right here tend to seek to justify or excuse it in a way they don't when anybody else does it

Does anyone remember when the Palestinians were jumping for joy in the streets after 9/11?

yes - I saw that the Police tried to prevent people getting to the Cenotaph to show their respects and when they finally got there they all stood in silence at 11:00


If the Police wanted to show that Braverman was correct about their 2 tier policing then todays events were ideal..

When the Police allowed them in to the Cenotaph they stood in silence like everyone else - meantime the Palestine marchers were desecrating other war memorials.

Respect sheepy style...