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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2023 9:12:40 GMT
This seems to be the latest media storm so lets try to understand what is happening here.
Some people wish to exercise their democratic rights to express their view that the UK Government should call for a ceasefire to end the violence in Gaza. Whether you agree with their view or not, it seems a legitimate cause given that c 5000 children have been killed in the last month alone.
This Sunday is Rememberance Sunday and commemorations will be held in London and elsewhere as normal on Sunday.
In recent years we have for some reason developed a habit of also commemorating 11 November as well as Rememberance Sunday so further ceremonies will take place this year on Saturday 11th November at 11am. Both Rememberance events will centre on Whitehall. That's all fine.
There is also planned to be a March in support of a ceasefire in Gaza on Saturday. It will start later in the day than the Rememberance ceremony and take place in a different part of London.
All you would think relatively uncontroversial.
Except that our Home Secretary supported by a weak Prime Minister and her allies in the Tabloid Press have been trying to create an issue that really shouldn't exist. They are stoking up hate and fear and nationalism out of very little. One GB News presenter even suggests this is the start of a civil war. As a result every chance now that right wing drunken yobs will infest London itching for a fight and every chance there will be some serious issues. Meanwhile on this forum some of the usual suspects have been manipulated as usual into an orgy of outrage using language that would have been shocking just a few years ago.
The question is then, why are Braverman and Sunak and their allies in the tabloids deliberately trying to provoke a conflict on the streets of our capital this weekend. It can only be a power play - either hoping to divert attention with an election round the corner from the Government's abject record on running the country or simply early skirmishes in the battle for the future of the Conservative Party. Either way pretty appalling stuff.
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Post by Orac on Nov 7, 2023 9:24:20 GMT
You start off by noting people's right to protest, but then call one such group 'right wing drunken yobs' and describe their presence as an 'infestation'
It's unclear how you are drawing lines between appropriate and inappropriate presence in London.
I think people are using their common sense and observation of behavior to predict likely outcomes
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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2023 9:25:58 GMT
People legitimately and peacefully protesting - good
People looking for a fight and pissing on policemen's memorial stones - bad
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Post by sandypine on Nov 7, 2023 9:30:47 GMT
People legitimately and peacefully protesting - good People looking for a fight and pissing on policemen's memorial stones - bad Not so, it depends who is legitimately protesting. The EDL spent years legitimately protesting and received intimidation and political violence for their troubles, they were kettled, kept away from city centres and told where and when they could legitimately demonstrate, and still the left wanted them stopped and banned. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 7, 2023 9:33:02 GMT
Any people supporting Hamas, even if they're not personally using violence are not legitimate protesters.
Round Hamas supporters up and lock them up.
They're about as much help to the Palestinian cause as the endorsement of Levi Bellfield.
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Post by Orac on Nov 7, 2023 9:34:48 GMT
People legitimately and peacefully protesting - good People looking for a fight and pissing on policemen's memorial stones - bad So groups that launch fireworks at police? It's clear you have a rather chronic bias. The only group that doesn't arguably, or partially, fit that bill are the people who would turn up for the ceremony just to stand in silence to remember the dead. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 7, 2023 9:37:17 GMT
Why do you think the Home Secretary and her allies in the media have deliberately sought to raise tensions around a matter that really shouldn't be controversial, seemingly intending to provoke violence in our capital this week? Is this behaviour acceptable?
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Post by sandypine on Nov 7, 2023 9:42:10 GMT
Why do you think the Home Secretary and her allies in the media have deliberately sought to raise tensions around a matter that really shouldn't be controversial, seemingly intending to provoke violence in our capital this week? Is this behaviour acceptable? Experience. Colston statue dumped in the harbour, BLM campaign statues defaced, street violence ensued against the police. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 7, 2023 9:52:16 GMT
People legitimately and peacefully protesting - good People looking for a fight and pissing on policemen's memorial stones - bad Not so, it depends who is legitimately protesting. The EDL spent years legitimately protesting and received intimidation and political violence for their troubles, they were kettled, kept away from city centres and told where and when they could legitimately demonstrate, and still the left wanted them stopped and banned. The EDL, the English Defense League is a far-right, Islamophobic organisation in the United Kingdom. Every thinking person should call for them to banned. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 7, 2023 9:55:57 GMT
Why do you think the Home Secretary and her allies in the media have deliberately sought to raise tensions around a matter that really shouldn't be controversial, seemingly intending to provoke violence in our capital this week? Is this behaviour acceptable? Their concerns seem to me to be symmetrical to your 'infestation' worry. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 7, 2023 9:58:15 GMT
Not so, it depends who is legitimately protesting. The EDL spent years legitimately protesting and received intimidation and political violence for their troubles, they were kettled, kept away from city centres and told where and when they could legitimately demonstrate, and still the left wanted them stopped and banned. The EDL, the English Defense League is a far-right, Islamophobic organisation in the United Kingdom. Every thinking person should call for them to banned. Which illustrates the point that it depends who is legitimately protesting. Most of us have different opinions on who is evil, good, right, wrong and should be banned. However legitimate protest belongs to us all, or it does not. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 7, 2023 10:00:11 GMT
This seems to be the latest media storm so lets try to understand what is happening here. Some people wish to exercise their democratic rights to express their view that the UK Government should call for a ceasefire to end the violence in Gaza. Whether you agree with their view or not, it seems a legitimate cause given that c 5000 children have been killed in the last month alone. This Sunday is Rememberance Sunday and commemorations will be held in London and elsewhere as normal on Sunday. In recent years we have for some reason developed a habit of also commemorating 11 November as well as Rememberance Sunday so further ceremonies will take place this year on Saturday 11th November at 11am. Both Rememberance events will centre on Whitehall. That's all fine. There is also planned to be a March in support of a ceasefire in Gaza on Saturday. It will start later in the day than the Rememberance ceremony and take place in a different part of London. Is the proposed demonstration a "call for a ceasefire", or just more 'poor me' pro-Arab discontent? |
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Post by see2 on Nov 7, 2023 10:05:50 GMT
The EDL, the English Defense League is a far-right, Islamophobic organisation in the United Kingdom. Every thinking person should call for them to banned. Which illustrates the point that it depends who is legitimately protesting. Most of us have different opinions on who is evil, good, right, wrong and should be banned. However legitimate protest belongs to us all, or it does not. Propagating extremism is definitely both unnecessary and dangerous. Intelligent individuals avoid it. Helping young people to avoid being pulled into extremism is just commonsense. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 7, 2023 11:41:34 GMT
People legitimately and peacefully protesting - good People looking for a fight and pissing on policemen's memorial stones - bad the protests are not peaceful |
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Post by piglet on Nov 7, 2023 12:01:15 GMT
There is a paradox in most things, to show mercy, be empathic etc is to show weakness to the psychopathic mind, and boundaries will get pushed further. In this case, more Israelis will die in future attacks, the only thing to do is to show that future attacks will be met by destruction. Bad like.
Dont do it again. The Israelis should prosecute the war to make themselves more secure whatever form that takes. Gaza should become Israeli, occupation or owned. F international law, follow that and Israelis die. Follow international law and Britain gets invaded. Capiche?
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