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Post by Pacifico on Nov 1, 2023 22:22:43 GMT
You should tell the Palestinians... So now we are agreed that this is not an existential crisis for Israel maybe someone should tell them to calm down a bit with the ethnic cleansing. What ethnic cleansing? |
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Post by see2 on Nov 2, 2023 7:27:07 GMT
2006 - were you expecting Hamas to introduce a Westminster Parliamentary democracy? Where did I say that? If you elect a right wing cynical party who then promote one party over another in Gaza and facilitate their success by policy and currency smuggling because you think divide and rule and they are easier to manipulate will succeed and it then all goes tits up is just as valid. The root cause of all the horrors and deprivations in Gaza is the hatred that Muslim Hamas have for the non-Muslim Jews. All this horror and deprivation yet the Arab / Muslim world has not turned against Hamas. Given the long term history of Muslims and Jews in the Middle East, should it be concluded that the majority of Arabs and many other Muslims hate the Jews and always have hated them? |
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Post by see2 on Nov 2, 2023 7:42:47 GMT
As much as I am horrified by what Israel is doing and I want it to stop, it is a war against Hamas, not ethnic cleansing. I am sickened by the fact that the Muslim world have failed to offer help Israel to eliminate Hamas by a ground assault only. It seems they hate Israel more than they wish to help the Arabs in Gaza. All Gaza is expendable as regards the greater 'good' of destroying Israel. Even Nasser admitted all those years ago that the 'right of return was to keep the open wound festering, any acceptance of Palestinian refugees into other countries would gradually wear away the right of return and lose the pressure to destroy Israel. Now the Arab world is in a cleft stick whereby their intransigence as regards this aspect is being openly exposed to the rest of the world. The Palestinian Arabs are the architects of their own distress. They refused to accept the Two State solution, and backed the war to annihilate Israel. Yet they and their supporters want to put all the blame for Middle East Jewish / Muslim problems onto the Jews. Muslim history both long term and short term is, IMO, without doubt, the most airbrushed history ever. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 2, 2023 9:10:23 GMT
The UN Partition Plan was never going to be accepted by the Arabs given that two thirds of the land in Mandate Palestine was to be allocated to the Jewish state which only had around a third of the population.
Britain, in particular, abstained from the UN vote and refused to impose the plan on the Palestinians. It was never implemented since the day after the Mandate expired the Arab-Israeli war began. Well by then the majority of the Mandate had already been given to the Arabs. Easy to forget but Jordan was part of the British mandate of Palestine. |
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 2, 2023 10:05:50 GMT
Any plan for partition post British mandate was rendered pointless when Ben Gurion et al declared independence before any UN vote on any plan happened.
I believe the declaration was pronounced 24 hours before the UN met to discuss the issue.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 2, 2023 11:37:39 GMT
Any plan for partition post British mandate was rendered pointless when Ben Gurion et al declared independence before any UN vote on any plan happened. I believe the declaration was pronounced 24 hours before the UN met to discuss the issue. the UN voted on partition in 1947 - independence was declared in 1948 |
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 2, 2023 11:40:42 GMT
Once again,it voted on THE PRINCIPLE of partition
The actual borders were still being discussed.
And remain the issue.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 2, 2023 11:53:10 GMT
Once again,it voted on THE PRINCIPLE of partition The actual borders were still being discussed. And remain the issue. No - the Vote was for the Partition Plan, which set out the borders. |
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Post by oracle75 on Nov 2, 2023 11:55:17 GMT
Israel declared independence before the final vote was taken.
Because they didnt like the odds.
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Post by see2 on Nov 2, 2023 13:10:33 GMT
Any plan for partition post British mandate was rendered pointless when Ben Gurion et al declared independence before any UN vote on any plan happened. I believe the declaration was pronounced 24 hours before the UN met to discuss the issue. The two state Plan was revealed in the previous year, 1947. The Palestinian Arabs immediately said that they would destroy Israel if it ever appeared, the Arab world followed suit. The Arab armies were already on the borders and began their invasion the day after Israel claimed independence in May 1948. __"In 1947, as the United Kingdom prepared to withdraw from the region, the United Nations passed a partition plan (UN Resolution 181) that would divide Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state, an idea originally proposed by the British government about a decade earlier."__ This was rejected by the Palestinian Arabs. The Jews felt they had no option other than to declare independence in May 1948 and take on the Arab armies if they carried out their threat to annihilate Israel. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 2, 2023 13:14:32 GMT
Israel declared independence before the final vote was taken. Because they didnt like the odds. The Palestinian Arabs and 5 Arab armies rejected the partition in 1947. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 2, 2023 14:14:13 GMT
Israel declared independence before the final vote was taken. Because they didnt like the odds. So now we are back to 1947 as the root cause of the problem and the blame game can progress down from there, and before if there is a will. In most circumstances people have to deal with where we are now. We could go back to 1948 as the root cause of our distinct multi-ethnic problems in the UK that are becoming ever more apparent. We cannot change that history we have to deal with where we are now, just as the ME all have to deal with where we are now. Looking at the history through different prisms will never solve the current issues. Personally I think it will never be solved as there is too much intransigence and when a little is given it is taken as a sign that a bit more pressure will win the day. Our problem is that the hatreds that exist are now manifesting themselves in the UK. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 2, 2023 17:25:51 GMT
Israel declared independence before the final vote was taken. Because they didnt like the odds. So now we are back to 1947 as the root cause of the problem and the blame game can progress down from there, and before if there is a will. In most circumstances people have to deal with where we are now. We could go back to 1948 as the root cause of our distinct multi-ethnic problems in the UK that are becoming ever more apparent. We cannot change that history we have to deal with where we are now, just as the ME all have to deal with where we are now. Looking at the history through different prisms will never solve the current issues. Personally I think it will never be solved as there is too much intransigence and when a little is given it is taken as a sign that a bit more pressure will win the day. Our problem is that the hatreds that exist are now manifesting themselves in the UK. The problem is the airbrushed history of the Palestinian Arabs, THEY CHOSE AGGRESSION AND VIOLENCE FROM THE DAY DIMMITUDE ON THE ISRAELIS WAS DROPPED BY THE OTTOMAN MUSLIMS IN 1858. Yet the whinge is always, 'the poor Arabs'. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 2, 2023 17:58:34 GMT
Israel declared independence before the final vote was taken. Because they didnt like the odds. The vote had been taken the previous year - there was only one UN Partition Plan and it was approved. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 2, 2023 19:55:02 GMT
So now we are back to 1947 as the root cause of the problem and the blame game can progress down from there, and before if there is a will. In most circumstances people have to deal with where we are now. We could go back to 1948 as the root cause of our distinct multi-ethnic problems in the UK that are becoming ever more apparent. We cannot change that history we have to deal with where we are now, just as the ME all have to deal with where we are now. Looking at the history through different prisms will never solve the current issues. Personally I think it will never be solved as there is too much intransigence and when a little is given it is taken as a sign that a bit more pressure will win the day. Our problem is that the hatreds that exist are now manifesting themselves in the UK. The problem is the airbrushed history of the Palestinian Arabs, THEY CHOSE AGGRESSION AND VIOLENCE FROM THE DAY DIMMITUDE ON THE ISRAELIS WAS DROPPED BY THE OTTOMAN MUSLIMS IN 1858. Yet the whinge is always, 'the poor Arabs'. I do not disagree however, the only solution lives in the here and now. |
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