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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 4, 2022 10:06:28 GMT
Makes you wonder what the population was before COVID and Brexit... I was laughing at the BBC reporting this earlier. They kept emphasizing that most people were born in India, to try and deflect from the fact that we have been flooded with 6m+ EU nationals under Freedom of Movement. Zero attempt at context, like the India figure covers 70+ years of immigration, and the EU figures only a few decades lol. "Those born in the European Union (EU) made up 3.6 million (36.4% of all non-UK born usual residents) of the population, an increase from 2.5 million (32.7%) in 2011 (including Croatia, who joined the EU in 2013). The remaining 6.4 million (63.6%) were born outside the EU, up from 5.1 million (67.3%) in 2011."
From the link in the OP.
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 4, 2022 10:24:00 GMT
Quite. It's not like people on this forum to make figures up.
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Post by Steve on Nov 4, 2022 11:59:33 GMT
They are quite staggering figures. And in many ways appalling. You can't have a stable society with that level of introducing those with little stake in the country into an already overcrowded one. You don't get great stability having so much cultural strain nor do you get it by undermining the labour market. We shouldn't blame those that have come but we can blame those that allowed it and even promoted it for short term political gain Let me see now. It states one in seven in the UK are born elsewhere. Father of the England captain football team Harry Kane, Father of King Charles, Father of Dominic Raab, Father of Enoch Braverman, Parents of Priti Patel, Wife of Nigel Farage and his Great great grand parents. Boris Johnston, born in America of Turkish descent. Joanne Lumley born in Srinagar, Freddie Mercury born Tanzania, father of the England Captain cricket team. Just a few. Would you like hundreds of others. Or did you not mean those ones. You meant the ones over there. Who you have not met. Now in terms of illegal Immigrants. Would you care to tell me who is to blame for those who should not be here. Why are they still here. Clue. Cheap labour, and who has been in power for the last 12 years. Inventing imaginary enemies to hate. You can phone a friend, go 50/50 or ask the forum. Government after government of different hues have pursued the same Ponzi scheme. Short term boosting the ratio of working population to economically inactive for short term illusory benefit or in some cases sus political reasons ignoring the long term position. Blair should never have allowed Poland etc to join the EU without requiring (as he could) clauses that prevented free movement until sufficient economic convergence was achieved. But then he wanted his platform to become the EU president and more resources to fuel that idiot economic balloon fiasco. The Tories at heart loved the undermining of the wage market. i say again we give citizenship where we should give permission to stay, we give permission to stay where we should give short term work permit visas and we give too many work permit visas. |
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Post by vlk on Nov 5, 2022 1:35:05 GMT
When people disagree that the country is overcrowded then obviously they must have some idea about at which point the country is overcrowded.
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 5, 2022 1:50:27 GMT
Makes you wonder what the population was before COVID and Brexit... I was laughing at the BBC reporting this earlier. They kept emphasizing that most people were born in India, to try and deflect from the fact that we have been flooded with 6m+ EU nationals under Freedom of Movement. Zero attempt at context, like the India figure covers 70+ years of immigration, and the EU figures only a few decades lol. "Those born in the European Union (EU) made up 3.6 million (36.4% of all non-UK born usual residents) of the population, an increase from 2.5 million (32.7%) in 2011 (including Croatia, who joined the EU in 2013). The remaining 6.4 million (63.6%) were born outside the EU, up from 5.1 million (67.3%) in 2011."
From the link in the OP.
I said I wonder what the population was before COVID and Brexit and you reply with meaningless statistics. A census is a snapshot in time, this one was after Brexit and during COVID restrictions, and if you actually know any EU nationals you would know that many returned to their home countries to be with their families during the pandemic... which led to labour shortages all over the EU. Also, you do understand that you can be an EU national and not have been born in an EU country, right? |
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 5, 2022 1:52:18 GMT
Quite. It's not like people on this forum to make figures up. Imagine being smug and supporting figures that were AFTER the point I made, so are irrelevant. Well done. |
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Post by jaydee on Nov 5, 2022 9:40:13 GMT
Government after government of different hues have pursued the same Ponzi scheme. Short term boosting the ratio of working population to economically inactive for short term illusory benefit or in some cases sus political reasons ignoring the long term position. Blair should never have allowed Poland etc to join the EU without requiring (as he could) clauses that prevented free movement until sufficient economic convergence was achieved. But then he wanted his platform to become the EU president and more resources to fuel that idiot economic balloon fiasco. The Tories at heart loved the undermining of the wage market. i say again we give citizenship where we should give permission to stay, we give permission to stay where we should give short term work permit visas and we give too many work permit visas. Listening to the garbage on here you can see why the French vetoed the UK three time from joining the then common market. In terms of Poland. People from European Economic Area countries have been the most likely to make a positive contribution, paying about 34% more in taxes than they received in benefits over the 10 years from 2001 to 2011, according to the findings from University College London's migration research unit. Other immigrants paid about 2% more than they received. That was nine years ago. And nothing to do with immigration. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 5, 2022 10:46:04 GMT
Government after government of different hues have pursued the same Ponzi scheme. Short term boosting the ratio of working population to economically inactive for short term illusory benefit or in some cases sus political reasons ignoring the long term position. Blair should never have allowed Poland etc to join the EU without requiring (as he could) clauses that prevented free movement until sufficient economic convergence was achieved. But then he wanted his platform to become the EU president and more resources to fuel that idiot economic balloon fiasco. The Tories at heart loved the undermining of the wage market. i say again we give citizenship where we should give permission to stay, we give permission to stay where we should give short term work permit visas and we give too many work permit visas. Listening to the garbage on here you can see why the French vetoed the UK three time from joining the then common market. In terms of Poland. People from European Economic Area countries have been the most likely to make a positive contribution, paying about 34% more in taxes than they received in benefits over the 10 years from 2001 to 2011, according to the findings from University College London's migration research unit. Other immigrants paid about 2% more than they received. That was nine years ago. And nothing to do with immigration. Unfortunately with the positive comes the negative. The same Economic area provided us with over 5600 people we had to put in prison in England and Wales. Overall in the population of England and Wales about 0.15% are in prison. Of those from the EU economic area it is about 0,18%. Nothing comes for free there is always a price to pay. |
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Post by Steve on Nov 5, 2022 11:51:22 GMT
When people disagree that the country is overcrowded then obviously they must have some idea about at which point the country is overcrowded. Well of major (> 10 million) countries we are the 12th most crowded in the world, we have to import ~ half our food and energy and every summer we have water shortages in many areas so I'd say we are well overcrowded in an over populated world. IMHO we were stressed when we went past 40 million and overcrowded when we went past 50 million (in 1950). But it's not just about numbers per unit area, the demographic balance (mainly of age) has to be considered and we are an ageing population too. |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 5, 2022 12:11:50 GMT
Sandypine Unfortunately with the positive comes the negative. The same Economic area provided us with over 5600 people we had to put in prison in England and Wales. Overall in the population of England and Wales about 0.15% are in prison. Of those from the EU economic area it is about 0,18%. Nothing comes for free there is always a price to pay.
Sandypine how does them figures compair to the worldwide population in prison what the Brexiters support.
Or even the native British in the prison population.
Also I will point out that the criminal justice system is more likely to lock up ehnic minorities/ foreigners then native British.
Plus the justice system was found to be racist.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 5, 2022 13:50:29 GMT
Sandypine Unfortunately with the positive comes the negative. The same Economic area provided us with over 5600 people we had to put in prison in England and Wales. Overall in the population of England and Wales about 0.15% are in prison. Of those from the EU economic area it is about 0,18%. Nothing comes for free there is always a price to pay. Sandypine how does them figures compair to the worldwide population in prison what the Brexiters support. Or even the native British in the prison population. Also I will point out that the criminal justice system is more likely to lock up ehnic minorities/ foreigners then native British. Plus the justice system was found to be racist. EU Economic area nationals make up 57% of all foreign nationals in prison. So the total of foreign nationals must be about 10,000 or approx 12% of the prison population. What do you mean by the 'native British' if the proportion of EU Economic area people in prison is greater than the proportion of the whole group then by logical deduction if you remove the EU economic nationals the percent for whats left will go down. The 'racist' aspect of teh prison system is a complicating issue as most from teh EU economic area will be white and most of the ethnic minority inmates may be British Citizens. You are complicating a simple observation that if one extols the virtues of a group then one must also be aware of the negative values they bring with them. |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 5, 2022 13:58:52 GMT
The point im making you can't go off the prison population when when ethnic minority/immigrants are more likely to charged and sent to prison then the native BRITISH.
It screws the numbers up .
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Post by Steve on Nov 5, 2022 14:19:51 GMT
EU Economic area nationals make up 57% of all foreign nationals in prison. So the total of foreign nationals must be about 10,000 or approx 12% of the prison population. . . Why is that surprising? People outside of their country of birth will surely have fewer family and other in country connections to keep them on the straight and narrow. Also will have less awareness of UK law and more likely to participate in enclaves isolated from normal contact with the authorities. It's one reason why I talk about the level of stress on society from those high levels of immigration. |
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 5, 2022 14:26:22 GMT
Government after government of different hues have pursued the same Ponzi scheme. Short term boosting the ratio of working population to economically inactive for short term illusory benefit or in some cases sus political reasons ignoring the long term position. Blair should never have allowed Poland etc to join the EU without requiring (as he could) clauses that prevented free movement until sufficient economic convergence was achieved. But then he wanted his platform to become the EU president and more resources to fuel that idiot economic balloon fiasco. The Tories at heart loved the undermining of the wage market. i say again we give citizenship where we should give permission to stay, we give permission to stay where we should give short term work permit visas and we give too many work permit visas. Listening to the garbage on here you can see why the French vetoed the UK three time from joining the then common market. In terms of Poland. People from European Economic Area countries have been the most likely to make a positive contribution, paying about 34% more in taxes than they received in benefits over the 10 years from 2001 to 2011, according to the findings from University College London's migration research unit. Other immigrants paid about 2% more than they received. That was nine years ago. And nothing to do with immigration. Cool story, except who mentioned receiving benefits? It is obvious they came to work. What about the agency workers using personal services companies paying zero tax and NI? Did they contribute to society? lol. Just think of the stupidity of what you are saying, they benefitted society... by making many jobs minimum wage. It didn't benefit truck drivers / factory workers / warehouse workers / trades people etc did it... no they got fucked over by a race to the bottom!! |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 5, 2022 17:15:00 GMT
The point im making you can't go off the prison population when when ethnic minority/immigrants are more likely to charged and sent to prison then the native BRITISH. It screws the numbers up . But we are only dealing with foreign nationals and most of them are white especially the EU Economic area The investigations as regards 'racism' in the justice system looked only at BAME and white and did not investigate foreign nationals to my knowledge. Since most black and brown would be British Citizens it seems likely that if they are treated more harshly that would indeed screw the numbers up to make the EU Economic migrants even more noticeable. As an aside the report you are referring to to my memory did not look at initial and ongoing behaviour towards the police, the courts and the judges. It looked only at similar case notes. We know from the Lawrence enquiry that the witness Brookes was hostile to the police from the outset cursing and swearing at them. In terms of being a customer (and remember he was also a potential perpetrator when the police turned up) he was not very helpful to his own cause; yet the police got the blame. There is often much more to things than are dreamt of in David Lammy's philosophy. |
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