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Post by Steve on Nov 2, 2022 23:34:01 GMT
They are quite staggering figures. And in many ways appalling. You can't have a stable society with that level of introducing those with little stake in the country into an already overcrowded one. You don't get great stability having so much cultural strain nor do you get it by undermining the labour market. We shouldn't blame those that have come but we can blame those that allowed it and even promoted it for short term political gain I suspect I’ve very little British dna even though I was born here with a Mum who was also born here. Dad’s an immigrant and worked at Ford for as long as I can remember. Mum is a senior nurse in the NHS. I work in an a London office of an international accountancy/business consultancy. My apologies for my parents and siblings and I, for causing so much cultural strain… Not what I was saying Patman. Please read my post again, it's all about a level of unflux exceeding a point. Any decent society can take in a small number of immigrants a year, the small stress is worth it for the benefits. But 3 million in 10 years is a huge level of such stress. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2022 0:54:34 GMT
They are quite staggering figures. And in many ways appalling. You can't have a stable society with that level of introducing those with little stake in the country into an already overcrowded one. You don't get great stability having so much cultural strain nor do you get it by undermining the labour market. We shouldn't blame those that have come but we can blame those that allowed it and even promoted it for short term political gain I suspect I’ve very little British dna even though I was born here with a Mum who was also born here. Dad’s an immigrant and worked at Ford for as long as I can remember. Mum is a senior nurse in the NHS. I work in an a London office of an international accountancy/business consultancy. My apologies for my parents and siblings and I, for causing so much cultural strain… Sorry Pat, you're a Brit, like it or not. Only a few nutty fuckers on here would say otherwise. |
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Post by jonksy on Nov 3, 2022 1:45:39 GMT
Just to throw in a curve ball, I wonder how many births in WW2 were due to the amount of refugees and other nationalities that were here to fight the common cause? I know the birthrate was a lot lower over the war periaod and a boom in 1945 but never the less children were still being born between 1939 and 1944.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 3, 2022 8:42:32 GMT
The Germans had similar concerns about the numbers of 'guest-workers' in the country whilst the men were away fighting. Here is a propaganda postcard produced and distributed by the British intended to play on just those fears..  |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 3, 2022 8:47:28 GMT
Another data point to consider.
The census data is a snapshot of the population as of May 2021. Since that date another almost 1.5 million foreign-born have arrived who will not have been included in the census. Some others may have left (or died) in the meantime but it is very likely that the foreign-born population is nearer 11 million rather than ten.
And of course, these numbers do not include illegals who have managed to stay below the radar.
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 3, 2022 10:06:46 GMT
Dan isn't there a error margin of 3% that covers them numbers your statistics
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 10:30:10 GMT
Another data point to consider. The census data is a snapshot of the population as of May 2021. Since that date another almost 1.5 million foreign-born have arrived who will not have been included in the census. . . . What's your source for that DD? Looks like you're including tourist that leave within 2 or 3 weeks. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 3, 2022 10:36:28 GMT
Dan isn't there a error margin of 3% that covers them numbers your statistics Don't know. Where did you find that number? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 3, 2022 10:45:55 GMT
Another data point to consider. The census data is a snapshot of the population as of May 2021. Since that date another almost 1.5 million foreign-born have arrived who will not have been included in the census. . . . What's your source for that DD? Looks like you're including tourist that leave within 2 or 3 weeks. No, the figures I quoted did not include visitor visas. The general source is the Home Office immigration and asylum statistics for the year ending June 2022.
To save you having to dig around, the breakdown is as follows:
'Humanitarian channel' (Hong Kong, Ukraine and Afghanistan schemes, refugees and asylum seekers); 312,507
'Work channel': 331,253
'Study channel': 486,868
'Family channel': 303,553
Overall total: 1,434,161
The 927,222 visitor visas are additional. Note that the number of visitor visas issued in 21/22 is less than half the pre-Covid total but that is likely to return to 'normal' once the effects of the pandemic are over.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 3, 2022 10:54:07 GMT
Some additional analysis from today’s Times. The following graphic shows that, in the last 20 years, the foreign-born population of England and Wales has more doubled as a proportion of the population as a whole.  “Of the top 20 local authorities with the highest proportion of non-UK born residents, 18 were in London. Only Slough (44 per cent) and Leicester (41.1 per cent) were outside… [T]here are now six local authorities with more than 50 per cent of the population born outside the UK, an increase of two. They were the London boroughs of Brent, with 56.1 per cent, Westminster with 55.6 per cent, Kensington & Chelsea with 53.9 per cent, Newham with 53.7 per cent, Harrow with 51.1 per cent and Ealing with 50.8 per cent.” www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ten-million-residents-of-england-and-wales-born-outside-the-uk-2021-census-shows-jzh7pmplm |
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 11:06:48 GMT
What's your source for that DD? Looks like you're including tourist that leave within 2 or 3 weeks. No, the figures I quoted did not include visitor visas. The general source is the Home Office immigration and asylum statistics for the year ending June 2022.
To save you having to dig around, the breakdown is as follows:
'Humanitarian channel' (Hong Kong, Ukraine and Afghanistan schemes, refugees and asylum seekers); 312,507
'Work channel': 331,253
'Study channel': 486,868
'Family channel': 303,553
Overall total: 1,434,161
The 927,222 visitor visas are additional. Note that the number of visitor visas issued in 21/22 is less than half the pre-Covid total but that is likely to return to 'normal' once the effects of the pandemic are over.
Thanks but that really doesn't back that we should be viewing that ~ 1.4 million in the immigration figures as visitor visas are for those who come and go back. So the overstayers (ie illegals) should be added but then we should deduct deportations I suggest focus on that 3 million extra over 10 years legal and permanent figure. That's appalling enough |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 3, 2022 11:15:57 GMT
Once again, the 1.4 million arrivals figure for Y/E 6/22 does not include the 927,000 visitor visas issued in the same period.
The 1.4 million are officially counted as migrants in line with the official, international definition of that term i.e. someone arriving with the intention of staying at least 12 months.
Visitor visas to the UK usually have a time-limit of six months.
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 11:21:24 GMT
Once again, the 1.4 million arrivals figure for Y/E 6/22 does not include the 927,000 visitor visas issued in the same period. The 1.4 million are officially counted as migrants in line with the official, international definition of that term i.e. someone arriving with the intention of staying at least 12 months. Visitor visas to the UK usually have a time-limit of six months. But a Visa is still a temporary stay permission. You're watering down the perceived credibility of the original complaint (which I very much supported) by trying to fancifully inflate the figures |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 3, 2022 11:31:15 GMT
There's nothing fanciful about their presence nor their entitlement to enter the settlement track to permanent settlement and eventually citizenship.
You're just being obstinately argumentative for no rational reason.
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 12:21:04 GMT
Nope, but you've now lost my support in this thread. And I had very much supported your OP but I can't back false or misleading assertions.
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