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Post by Orac on Aug 29, 2023 12:46:49 GMT
They want to live here because it is beneficial to do so, but they also want to do so (understandably) under their terms rather than ours.
We allow this lopsided pantomime because we have been convinced that we are not allowed to press our side in the relationship.
This asymmetry is allowed even to the point of us deliberately self-excluding ourselves from our own decision making to prevent our decisions being tainted by our preferences.
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Post by jonksy on Aug 29, 2023 12:54:14 GMT
French ban of abaya robes in schools draws applause, criticism By Juliette Jabkhiro PARIS (Reuters) -The French government's decision to ban children from wearing the abaya, the loose-fitting, full-length robes worn by some Muslim women, in state-run schools drew applause on Monday from the right, but also criticism.
FILE PHOTO: Fashion show of abayas in Riyadh
France has enforced a ban on religious symbols in state schools since 2004, to uphold its strict brand of secularism, known as "laicite". The topic is a sensitive one, regularly triggering political tension in the country. "Our schools are continually put under test, and over the past months, breaches to laicite have increased considerably, in particular with (pupils) wearing religious attire like abayas and kameez,"
Education Minister Gabriel Attal told a news conference to explain Sunday's ban.
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Post by andrewbrown on Aug 29, 2023 13:01:52 GMT
Except that we don't have a law that men can't wear a dress, so why would we want to apply it to Muslim women? You are free to wear what you like, that IS our law, so why wouldn't it apply to all? You’re skirting the issue Andrew if you’ll excuse the pun. is this form of dress used by that religion to oppress women,it’s a simple question? No more so than children are oppressed by being made to wear school uniform. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Aug 29, 2023 13:02:23 GMT
Love the pun BTW! 😂
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Post by vlk on Aug 29, 2023 13:09:30 GMT
Whether we want it or not, we all are to some extent prisoners of our culture. Therefore if you are told from birth that you are supposed to wear in a certain way you don't change your thinking that easily and unlearn it.
Imagine there being a country where nudism is the norm. Would you fit in there very well?
Btw, western women who wear muslim clothes don't have any excuse. They have loose screws.
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Post by jonksy on Aug 29, 2023 13:10:43 GMT
You’re skirting the issue Andrew if you’ll excuse the pun. is this form of dress used by that religion to oppress women,it’s a simple question? No more so than children are oppressed by being made to wear school uniform. Is the UK school uniform a representation of a bin liner for our female children? You haven't thought this one out have you? |
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Post by andrewbrown on Aug 29, 2023 13:14:10 GMT
I have thought it through, you just missed the point.
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 29, 2023 13:15:46 GMT
You’re skirting the issue Andrew if you’ll excuse the pun. is this form of dress used by that religion to oppress women,it’s a simple question? No more so than children are oppressed by being made to wear school uniform. Don't be daft. Andrew, school uniform is inclusive, it's a leveller. I would have thought you would approve. Without school uniform you would have kids with wealthy parents going to school in expensive designer clothes, and kids with poor parents would stand out like a sore thumb and inevitably become the butt of jokes. Everyone wearing the same uniform can also instil a sense of 'team' and belonging and, yes pride. I say 'pride' in a positive sense, the old fashioned sense of the word. I'm not referring to bloody rainbow flags. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 29, 2023 13:16:59 GMT
No more so than children are oppressed by being made to wear school uniform. Is the UK school uniform a representation of a bin liner for our female children? You haven't thought this one out have you? It's like they want to stand out, of course other kids are going to name call, it's what kids do, then they go running crying racism, we know it's all leading for the government to build segregated schools for different faiths. Guzzle up more tax payers money, they don't want to intergrate whit white people, they loath us, all they want from the UK is to take it over, and boot the white Christians out, declare the UK a Islamic state. |
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Post by jonksy on Aug 29, 2023 13:20:07 GMT
I have thought it through, you just missed the point. You have no point. So where exactly should the UK draw the line in your estimation? Chopping off hands and public whippings? You are the one supporting these idiots so you must have a tolerance level surely. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Aug 29, 2023 13:21:49 GMT
No more so than children are oppressed by being made to wear school uniform. Don't be daft. Andrew, school uniform is inclusive, it's a leveller. I would have thought you would approve. Without school uniform you would have kids with wealthy parents going to school in expensive designer clothes, and kids with poor parents would stand out like a sore thumb and inevitably become the butt of jokes. Everyone wearing the same uniform can also instil a sense of 'team' and belonging and, yes pride. I say 'pride' in a positive sense, the old fashioned sense of the word. I'm not referring to bloody rainbow flags. Yeah, you are wrong. I'm not in favour of either the Niqaab nor school uniform. I went to a school with no uniform and actually there were no issues. Well, there kind of was a uniform but it was jeans and a t-shirt. But although I'm not in favour of the Niqaab, I don't think that the government should dictate dress codes. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 29, 2023 13:22:55 GMT
Do you have a better figure? The fact that a few other countries ban the veil in some or all public places is not a reason to ban it here (or not to). It rather feels like the only reason you raise this issue is to "bash the muslims" rather than any concern for individual muslim women's rights. Fair? Ha bash the Muslims eh,Ermm no is that what the French,Belgians and Danes are doing can you answer that. A quote from a Muslim woman,is she bashing Muslims too? As I have said before what France does is up to France. I asked you to justify banning veils in the UK. You have given me no reason to do so. I am not going to support intervening in individuals right to wear what they wish unless I have a convincing reason to do so. Ms Ahmed is entitled to her view. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 29, 2023 13:29:13 GMT
Don't be daft. Andrew, school uniform is inclusive, it's a leveller. I would have thought you would approve. Without school uniform you would have kids with wealthy parents going to school in expensive designer clothes, and kids with poor parents would stand out like a sore thumb and inevitably become the butt of jokes. Everyone wearing the same uniform can also instil a sense of 'team' and belonging and, yes pride. I say 'pride' in a positive sense, the old fashioned sense of the word. I'm not referring to bloody rainbow flags. Yeah, you are wrong. I'm not in favour of either the Niqaab nor school uniform. I went to a school with no uniform and actually there were no issues. Well, there kind of was a uniform but it was jeans and a t-shirt. But although I'm not in favour of the Niqaab, I don't think that the government should dictate dress codes.
Yeah, right on man. |
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Post by jonksy on Aug 29, 2023 13:36:57 GMT
Ha bash the Muslims eh,Ermm no is that what the French,Belgians and Danes are doing can you answer that. A quote from a Muslim woman,is she bashing Muslims too? As I have said before what France does is up to France. I asked you to justify banning veils in the UK. You have given me no reason to do so. I am not going to support intervening in individuals right to wear what they wish unless I have a convincing reason to do so. Ms Ahmed is entitled to her view. If you were a bank assistant would you serve anyone whoes face is not visible? |
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Post by wapentake on Aug 29, 2023 14:04:31 GMT
Ha bash the Muslims eh,Ermm no is that what the French,Belgians and Danes are doing can you answer that. A quote from a Muslim woman,is she bashing Muslims too? As I have said before what France does is up to France. I asked you to justify banning veils in the UK. You have given me no reason to do so. I am not going to support intervening in individuals right to wear what they wish unless I have a convincing reason to do so. Ms Ahmed is entitled to her view. Yes I did, I believe it is used to oppress anyway it’s funny how you cite eu members having superior rights unlike the UK but when they do things like this you say it’s up to them. As far as Andrews point schooluniform isn’t required outside of school. |
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