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Post by wapentake on Aug 29, 2023 9:23:12 GMT
You seem to have changed the question Wapentake. Some muslim women choose to wear the Burqa and other forms of traditional islamic dress. That for me is entirely their choice. A small number of muslim women are probably coerced into wearing it against their will. That is not acceptable. It feels hard to tell the categories apart in practise though. Nothing hard at all you want to fog it all by saying it is hard to tell who is or isn’t being oppressed. Those who wants choose can wear it anywhere but in public. How do you know it’s a small number of women forced to wear it? |
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 29, 2023 9:23:40 GMT
personally I don't see where it has gone off topic, except saying it's gone off topic.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 29, 2023 9:35:26 GMT
It started as an observation of extending a constitutional law in another country.
It moved over to whether Muslim women's dress is suppression
Hardly the same suject.
I will happily admit my post was way off topic but i felt it was necessary to correct a serious assumption.
It shouldnt be followed up.
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 29, 2023 9:48:12 GMT
It started as an observation of extending a constitutional law in another country. It moved over to whether Muslim women's dress is suppression Hardly the same suject. I will happily admit my post was way off topic but i felt it was necessary to correct a serious assumption. It shouldnt be followed up. During normal social intercourse conversations will inevitably digress, it would be a strange thing if they didn't. |
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Post by wapentake on Aug 29, 2023 9:55:11 GMT
It started as an observation of extending a constitutional law in another country. It moved over to whether Muslim women's dress is suppression Hardly the same suject. I will happily admit my post was way off topic but i felt it was necessary to correct a serious assumption. It shouldnt be followed up. In other topics on this subject posters have called France oppressive regards their laws on Muslim dress and say if the UK would be oppressive to do the same. Why then is pointing out that women forced to dress by a religious code is thought off topic you’re not hard of thinking are you? |
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Post by Orac on Aug 29, 2023 10:13:18 GMT
The western secular ethic (tradition) was designed to deal with situations in which most of the adherents of any religion placed significant value in this secular ethic itself.
It wasn't designed to deal with religious forms like Islam, that (at best) place no value on it at all. It can deal with small groups with these views, but not large.
A secularist can't take an even handed stance on two religions, if one of them places value in secularity and the other is absolutely apposed
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 29, 2023 10:19:33 GMT
Don't want to be accused of going off topic, but can you imagine a white British Christian going to live in a Islamic state and expect them to honour our religion, we'd have to flee the country for fear of our lives, and be on the next charted dinghy out of France.
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Post by dappy on Aug 29, 2023 10:20:22 GMT
You seem to have changed the question Wapentake. Some muslim women choose to wear the Burqa and other forms of traditional islamic dress. That for me is entirely their choice. A small number of muslim women are probably coerced into wearing it against their will. That is not acceptable. It feels hard to tell the categories apart in practise though. Nothing hard at all you want to fog it all by saying it is hard to tell who is or isn’t being oppressed. Those who wants choose can wear it anywhere but in public. How do you know it’s a small number of women forced to wear it? Why should those who choose to wear it not be permitted to wear it anywhere they like? |
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Post by wapentake on Aug 29, 2023 10:52:41 GMT
Nothing hard at all you want to fog it all by saying it is hard to tell who is or isn’t being oppressed. Those who wants choose can wear it anywhere but in public. How do you know it’s a small number of women forced to wear it? Why should those who choose to wear it not be permitted to wear it anywhere they like? Why can’t you answer how you know only a small number are forced to wear it? |
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Post by dappy on Aug 29, 2023 11:23:36 GMT
Why should those who choose to wear it not be permitted to wear it anywhere they like? Why can’t you answer how you know only a small number are forced to wear it? There are different forms of traditional islamic dress. If you are talking about the full face veil, it seems the best estimate for the number of people in the UK is 3000 to 5000. Evidence seems to be that most people who wear it do because they want to so feels like quite a small number wearing it against their will. Do you have an answer as to why people should not be permitted to wear whatever they choose. |
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Post by wapentake on Aug 29, 2023 11:34:58 GMT
Why can’t you answer how you know only a small number are forced to wear it? There are different forms of traditional islamic dress. If you are talking about the full face veil, it seems the best estimate for the number of people in the UK is 3000 to 5000. Evidence seems to be that most people who wear it do because they want to so feels like quite a small number wearing it against their will. Do you have an answer as to why people should not be permitted to wear whatever they choose. Estimate ,so you don’t really know. Yes I do have an answer,France is not the only country with such regulation,Denmark too and Belgium also a state in Germany. We are nominally a Christian country and though anyone is allowed freedom of worship such garb is foreign to our culture,democracies all above but savvy enough to want to safeguard,why shouldn’t we? |
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Post by dappy on Aug 29, 2023 11:43:12 GMT
Do you have a better figure?
The fact that a few other countries ban the veil in some or all public places is not a reason to ban it here (or not to).
It rather feels like the only reason you raise this issue is to "bash the muslims" rather than any concern for individual muslim women's rights. Fair?
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Post by wapentake on Aug 29, 2023 12:30:00 GMT
Do you have a better figure? The fact that a few other countries ban the veil in some or all public places is not a reason to ban it here (or not to). It rather feels like the only reason you raise this issue is to "bash the muslims" rather than any concern for individual muslim women's rights. Fair? Ha bash the Muslims eh,Ermm no is that what the French,Belgians and Danes are doing can you answer that. A quote from a Muslim woman,is she bashing Muslims too? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 29, 2023 12:32:16 GMT
Bit personal Dappy! The fact is, people may not be quite so critical of Islam if Muslims were less demanding and more inclined to rub along, to integrate, and perhaps less inclined to blow people up. |
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Post by wapentake on Aug 29, 2023 12:41:58 GMT
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