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Post by wapentake on Aug 29, 2023 8:44:54 GMT
Lets make a special effort to appear Grown Up and call France France. you are right Red, we are lucky to live in a liberal Western Democracy. That means we are allowed to think and (in the vast majority of cases) say what we want. It’s a great freedom to have which makes us a better place to live than many other countries. That means of course that if a small number of people wish to call for Sharia Law they are perfectly at liberty to do so. The rest of us are perfectly at liberty to ignore them. It’s how a Liberal Democracy works. So I’ll ask you Dappy the same question I asked Andrew and got no reply,is the Muslim dress code used to oppress women? |
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Post by dappy on Aug 29, 2023 8:51:21 GMT
Are you talking in this country?
Its quite a complicated subject.
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Post by wapentake on Aug 29, 2023 8:53:39 GMT
Are you talking in this country? It’s quite a complicated subject. It’s not complicated at all,simple question are Muslim women expected to dress in a way by their religion in this country? |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 29, 2023 9:00:01 GMT
Lets make a special effort to appear Grown Up and call France France. you are right Red, we are lucky to live in a liberal Western Democracy. That means we are allowed to think and (in the vast majority of cases) say what we want. It’s a great freedom to have which makes us a better place to live than many other countries. That means of course that if a small number of people wish to call for Sharia Law they are perfectly at liberty to do so. The rest of us are perfectly at liberty to ignore them. It’s how a Liberal Democracy works. So I’ll ask you Dappy the same question I asked Andrew and got no reply,is the Muslim dress code used to oppress women? You have now changed the subject completely. I now expect a string of condemnation of Muslims because of the way they dress, complete with familiar assumptions, anecdotes, cyclopsian observation and ending in a general declaration that Muslims will bring about the downfall of the West. So how about not wasting time and stay on topic? France, like the UK, is a sovereign country with a history and culture all its own. We dont harrass Muslums, kidnap, torture or murder them, drive them out or try to prevent them entering the country by building walls or not recognising passports or denying visas. They have all the rights accorded anyone else. France merely asks them to dress in public and state areas like everyone else. It reduces racial attacks and allows Muslim men AND women to take a full part on an equal basis in all activities. Respecting cultural sensitities, the law has been introduced slowly. It barely made a ripple in French media and there was no backlash from Muslims or anyone else. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 29, 2023 9:03:28 GMT
Lets make a special effort to appear Grown Up and call France France. you are right Red, we are lucky to live in a liberal Western Democracy. That means we are allowed to think and (in the vast majority of cases) say what we want. Its a great freedom to have which makes us a better place to live than many other countries. That means of course that if a small number of people wish to call for Sharia Law they are perfectly at liberty to do so. The rest of us are perfectly at liberty to ignore them. Its how a Liberal Democracy works. The freedom to say and even think what we want is rapidly being curtailed by ESG, woke and outraged lefties who aggressively promote offence and cancel culture. On the broader point in question - why do you suppose so many Muslims leave Islamic shit tips for liberal non Islamic democracies like the UK, then once here they openly criticise our way of life and demand sharia? |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 29, 2023 9:04:06 GMT
Lets make a special effort to appear Grown Up and call France France. you are right Red, we are lucky to live in a liberal Western Democracy. That means we are allowed to think and (in the vast majority of cases) say what we want. Its a great freedom to have which makes us a better place to live than many other countries. That means of course that if a small number of people wish to call for Sharia Law they are perfectly at liberty to do so. The rest of us are perfectly at liberty to ignore them. Its how a Liberal Democracy works. Oh so you would object to them having their hands cut off for theft or public whipping of women for their supposed impropriety in or out of wedlock being carried out in the civilised world. All serious crimes covered by the French penal code which applies equally to everone regardless of religious preference. Let's not get dramatic. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 29, 2023 9:04:32 GMT
This is what gets me, France can do what it likes and is not answerable to anyone but Macron, now if Sunak tried that here it wouldn't get past first base, we'd have the lefty outraged woke snowflakes calling him racist, why don't we have a leader and government that 'leads', why are they frightened of their own shadow?
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Post by wapentake on Aug 29, 2023 9:04:35 GMT
And this is what you get,no answer,we’re told this is a liberal democracy so we cannot tell them how to dress but they stand by silent fully aware that any Muslim women and girls are forced to dress in a certain way by the males,are expected to accept who they’ll marry.
There have been so called honour killings here,girls barely teens taken to Pakistan for a so called holiday where they are married off against their will.
What do those who cite liberal democracy say,that’ll be nothing or meaningless waffle.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 29, 2023 9:06:06 GMT
Lets make a special effort to appear Grown Up and call France France. you are right Red, we are lucky to live in a liberal Western Democracy. That means we are allowed to think and (in the vast majority of cases) say what we want. Its a great freedom to have which makes us a better place to live than many other countries. That means of course that if a small number of people wish to call for Sharia Law they are perfectly at liberty to do so. The rest of us are perfectly at liberty to ignore them. Its how a Liberal Democracy works. The freedom to say and even think what we want is rapidly being curtailed by ESG, woke and outraged lefties who aggressively promote offence and cancel culture. On the broader point in question - why do you suppose so many Muslims leave Islamic shit tips for liberal non Islamic democracies like the UK, then once here they openly criticise our way of life and demand sharia? Here we go. |
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Post by wapentake on Aug 29, 2023 9:07:17 GMT
So I’ll ask you Dappy the same question I asked Andrew and got no reply,is the Muslim dress code used to oppress women? You have now changed the subject completely. I now expect a string of condemnation of Muslims because of the way they dress, complete with familiar assumptions, anecdotes, cyclopsian observation and ending in a general declaration that Muslims will bring about the downfall of the West. So how about not wasting time and stay on topic?France, like the UK, is a sovereign country with a history and culture all its own. We dont harrass Muslums, kidnap, torture or murder them, drive them out or try to prevent them entering the country by building walls or not recognising passports or denying visas. They have all the rights accorded anyone else. France merely asks them to dress in public and state areas like everyone else. It reduces racial attacks and allows Muslim men AND women to take a full part on an equal basis in all activities. Respecting cultural sensitities, the law has been introduced slowly. It barely made a ripple in French media and there was no backlash from Muslims or anyone else. So how about you realise you’re not a mod or the arbiter of how the thread progresses. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 29, 2023 9:16:25 GMT
You seem to have changed the question Wapentake.
Some muslim women choose to wear the Burqa and other forms of traditional islamic dress. That for me is entirely their choice.
A small number of muslim women are probably coerced into wearing it against their will. That is not acceptable.
It feels hard to tell the categories apart in practise though.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 29, 2023 9:16:28 GMT
This is what gets me, France can do what it likes and is not answerable to anyone but Macron, now if Sunak tried that here it would get past first post, we'd have the lefty outraged woke snowflakes calling him racist, why don't we have a leader and government that 'leads', why are they frightened of their own shadow? Because President Macron cannot do what he likes. He is subject to the Constitution. He spends more time in negotiations with unions and other pressure groups trying to avoid strikes and demonstrations. France has a very active democracy where the President is expected to pass legislation having directly negotiated it with leaders elected by the people it will affect. Mick Lynch vs the government comes closest in the UK. Unfortunately the UK recoils at having to negotiate directly with state employees paid by the people through taxation the government imposes. The only way to practise direct democracy in the UK is to hang in there for months and grab the headlines. I know this is off topic but the comment i addressed is hugely misleading. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 29, 2023 9:18:28 GMT
The freedom to say and even think what we want is rapidly being curtailed by ESG, woke and outraged lefties who aggressively promote offence and cancel culture. On the broader point in question - why do you suppose so many Muslims leave Islamic shit tips for liberal non Islamic democracies like the UK, then once here they openly criticise our way of life and demand sharia? Here we go. Quoi... |
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 29, 2023 9:20:16 GMT
This is what gets me, France can do what it likes and is not answerable to anyone but Macron, now if Sunak tried that here it would get past first post, we'd have the lefty outraged woke snowflakes calling him racist, why don't we have a leader and government that 'leads', why are they frightened of their own shadow? Because President Macron cannot do what he likes. He is subject to the Constitution. He spends more time in negotiations with unions and other pressure groups trying to avoid strikes and demonstrations. France has a very active democracy where the President is expected to pass legislation having directly negotiated it with leaders elected by the people it will affect. Mick Lynch vs the government comes closest in the UK. Unfortunately the UK recoils at having to negotiate directly with state employees paid by the people through taxation the government imposes. The only way to practise direct democracy in the UK is to hang in there for months and grab the headlines. I know this is off topic but the comment i addressed is hugely misleading. You keep saying 'this is off topic', it's almost impossible not to go off topic if you need to put a point across, I wouldn't let yourself get too concerned about it. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 29, 2023 9:21:52 GMT
Well the topic has already changed so i"ll find something else to do.
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