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Post by Handyman on Nov 2, 2022 11:55:20 GMT
Disingenuous how kind, you assume wrongly not my figure one that has been in the press recently, I am a pensioner and retired after working and paying income tax on my earnings for over 50 years, I still pay income tax on my earnings, it matters not if you me and they are working full time, part time or not, if your income is not over £12,500 per annum that fact remains, you don't pay income tax on your earnings If you don't work and don't earn anything you don't pay any tax at all, I never mentioned anything about anyone being a burden on the state. The fact that something has been reported in the press recently does not make it true and does not constitute evidence. Large elements of the press are notoriously unreliable sources of information. A link to a reputable source would be more convincing. I am aware of that fact, but their source allegedly was HMRC itself, if you wish to look |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2022 11:56:47 GMT
Indeed. One of my very best friends is a Latvian national who has been here now for some 13 years or so. She has worked throughout that time, not always in well paying jobs, yet has never claimed any welfare benefits during her entire stay here. From what I see of other immigrants - both from inside and outside the EU - this seems to be the norm. Asylum seekers don't work simply because they are not allowed to until their claims have been assessed, and only then if actually granted asylum. It would be most unreasonable to criticise them for not working when they are barred from doing so by law. When it comes to those on benefits, including millions of low paid working people, most of them are home grown. Most migrants work and contribute to society without claiming benefits. Well thats not true - most migrants come in on non-work visas.. Work visas only account for about 30% of immigration into the UK. My Latvian friend did not come here on a work visa. But she has always worked. So that's not true either. Besides which, many of those who don't come in via work visas will nevertheless find work whilst they are here. But I guess you are one of those with this strange emotional need to believe that they are all sitting on their arses living off benefits. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 2, 2022 12:12:33 GMT
Take myself as an example. I am not all that well paid, typically about 21k before tax. Yet I pay both NI and Income Tax, pay my Council Tax in full minus the 25% discount for being a single occupant, pay VAT like everyone else, get clobbered with fuel duty as part of my necessary commuting costs, and get heavily taxed on those infrequent occasions when I choose to buy any alcohol. I am not untypical yet am far less than an average earner. I also claim no benefits whatsoever. So quit with this rubbish about most people not paying tax. Did you never seek to better yourself? Acquire more skills/qualifications and move up in the world? I'd suggest that that would have been a more productive use of your time rather than seeking to drag everyone else down to your level. But I guess that the politics of envy was an easier way out. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2022 12:18:36 GMT
The fact that something has been reported in the press recently does not make it true and does not constitute evidence. Large elements of the press are notoriously unreliable sources of information. A link to a reputable source would be more convincing. I am aware of that fact, but their source allegedly was HMRC itself, if you wish to look "Allegedly" hardly constitutes proof. I don't even know what media source you read it in. Some are notorious for only printing carefully selected facts designed to present a skewed picture. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2022 12:21:31 GMT
Take myself as an example. I am not all that well paid, typically about 21k before tax. Yet I pay both NI and Income Tax, pay my Council Tax in full minus the 25% discount for being a single occupant, pay VAT like everyone else, get clobbered with fuel duty as part of my necessary commuting costs, and get heavily taxed on those infrequent occasions when I choose to buy any alcohol. I am not untypical yet am far less than an average earner. I also claim no benefits whatsoever. So quit with this rubbish about most people not paying tax. Did you never seek to better yourself? Acquire more skills/qualifications and move up in the world? I'd suggest that that would have been a more productive use of your time rather than seeking to drag everyone else down to your level. But I guess that the politics of envy was an easier way out. So the Squeezed Pimple finally shows up to make no valid points at all, just more personal trolling. You are a waste of good air around here. If bettering myself involved being like you, I'd rather be skint, lol And you characteristically do what most of your ilk do, mistake fairness for envy. But I don't envy you. I pity you. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 2, 2022 12:41:46 GMT
...If bettering myself involved being like you, I'd rather be skint, lol... QED. LOL!  |
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Post by borchester on Nov 2, 2022 12:44:47 GMT
We've been through this. It increases tax take on a year on year basis. This years intake of immigrants paying last years tax shortfall with public services constantly playing catch up. Tax receipts are a year behind expenditure - so a migrant is putting a demand on public services before he pays any tax (if he ever does) That is true. But on the other hand migrants are coming to the UK because there is work which our own layabout army refuse to do. So it is a small investment to secure the financial well being of the UK |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2022 13:03:39 GMT
Take myself as an example. I am not all that well paid, typically about 21k before tax. Yet I pay both NI and Income Tax, pay my Council Tax in full minus the 25% discount for being a single occupant, pay VAT like everyone else, get clobbered with fuel duty as part of my necessary commuting costs, and get heavily taxed on those infrequent occasions when I choose to buy any alcohol. I am not untypical yet am far less than an average earner. I also claim no benefits whatsoever. So quit with this rubbish about most people not paying tax. Did you never seek to better yourself? Acquire more skills/qualifications and move up in the world? I'd suggest that that would have been a more productive use of your time rather than seeking to drag everyone else down to your level. But I guess that the politics of envy was an easier way out. And who said I ever wanted to drag everyone down to my income level? That is a frequent straw man beloved of right wingers, some shit you make up and then attack as if it is something I ever said, lol. Which is clearly stupid. I do however definitely want the circumstances of those less fortunate than myself to be improved. And if that means people like you paying more tax - win-win. All your self interested bleatings achieve is convince me you deserve to be forced to pay more tax. Bring it on. lol |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 2, 2022 13:25:02 GMT
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Post by zanygame on Nov 2, 2022 14:00:46 GMT
Did you never seek to better yourself? Acquire more skills/qualifications and move up in the world? I'd suggest that that would have been a more productive use of your time rather than seeking to drag everyone else down to your level. But I guess that the politics of envy was an easier way out. And who said I ever wanted to drag everyone down to my income level? That is a frequent straw man beloved of right wingers, some shit you make up and then attack as if it is something I ever said, lol. Which is clearly stupid. I do however definitely want the circumstances of those less fortunate than myself to be improved though. And if that means people like you paying more tax - win-win. All you self interested bleatings achieve is convince me you deserve to be forced to pay more tax. Bring it on. lol One of the reasons I talk on this topic is that I am reasonably wealthy, so I can't be accused of envy or any of the other things they use to try and avoid the issues and shut us up. Do you notice none of them addresses the issue of how those earning less every year should fill the tax gap created by the wealth gap. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 2, 2022 14:27:15 GMT
Tax receipts are a year behind expenditure - so a migrant is putting a demand on public services before he pays any tax (if he ever does) That is true. But on the other hand migrants are coming to the UK because there is work which our own layabout army refuse to do. So it is a small investment to secure the financial well being of the UK Not sure if that works. It seems the second generation in the migrant communities on average are even more unwilling to work than our own laybaout army and contribute to that army in greater numbers than their proportion in the population would merit |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 2, 2022 14:36:52 GMT
Most people effectively don't pay any tax. That is absolute bunkum. Most working people earn more than the 12.5k threshold and thus do pay income taxes and NI. And then of course there is VAT, duties on tobacco, alcohol and fuel, not to mention Council Tax. Take myself as an example. I am not all that well paid, typically about 21k before tax. Yet I pay both NI and Income Tax, pay my Council Tax in full minus the 25% discount for being a single occupant, pay VAT like everyone else, get clobbered with fuel duty as part of my necessary commuting costs, and get heavily taxed on those infrequent occasions when I choose to buy any alcohol. I am not untypical yet am far less than an average earner. I also claim no benefits whatsoever. So quit with this rubbish about most people not paying tax. I'm just telling you the facts - that over 50% of the population are net beneficiaries of the state. Just to make it clear, because obviously you and zanaygame don't understand, that doesn't mean that the majority pay no tax. It means that they effectively pay no tax because the state benefits outweigh the tax they pay. If you go back to pre-Brown/Blair times about 60% paid tax. It changed under Blair/Brown.You may be an exception in that you earn a below average wage yet receive no benefits - maybe you have bought your own house and have no children - but you still get the benefit of the NHS. Basically it's pretty near impossible for migrants to come to this country with nothing and live on even an average salary without claiming benefits. And the reason why these people leave France and come to the UK is because the in-work benefits make it easy to come here with nothing and claim large benefits. You can't do that in France. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2022 14:40:28 GMT
And who said I ever wanted to drag everyone down to my income level? That is a frequent straw man beloved of right wingers, some shit you make up and then attack as if it is something I ever said, lol. Which is clearly stupid. I do however definitely want the circumstances of those less fortunate than myself to be improved though. And if that means people like you paying more tax - win-win. All you self interested bleatings achieve is convince me you deserve to be forced to pay more tax. Bring it on. lol One of the reasons I talk on this topic is that I am reasonably wealthy, so I can't be accused of envy or any of the other things they use to try and avoid the issues and shut us up. Do you notice none of them addresses the issue of how those earning less every year should fill the tax gap created by the wealth gap. Indeed. It is always about making the poor pay more and cutting benefits whilst cutting taxes for the rich who supposedly pay more than their fair share, with zero recognition that this is largely a product of the wealth gap. The rich pay so much because they earn so much. If they earned a bit less and the poor earned a bit more the rich would pay less and the poor would pay more. We cannot prevent the rich from paying themselves vast sums but we can tax them adequately so that they pay an amount that reflects their vast and excessive incomes. And we can potentially limit costs for the poor by measures such as rent capping and increasing take home pay at the bottom both by raising tax thresholds and increasing the minimum wage. The latter must be done carefully with commensurate cuts in business rates and/or employers' NI contributions for sectors where this would be difficult to avoid job losses. Using the additional taxes on the rich to help pay for the latter makes sense |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2022 14:53:10 GMT
That is absolute bunkum. Most working people earn more than the 12.5k threshold and thus do pay income taxes and NI. And then of course there is VAT, duties on tobacco, alcohol and fuel, not to mention Council Tax. Take myself as an example. I am not all that well paid, typically about 21k before tax. Yet I pay both NI and Income Tax, pay my Council Tax in full minus the 25% discount for being a single occupant, pay VAT like everyone else, get clobbered with fuel duty as part of my necessary commuting costs, and get heavily taxed on those infrequent occasions when I choose to buy any alcohol. I am not untypical yet am far less than an average earner. I also claim no benefits whatsoever. So quit with this rubbish about most people not paying tax. I'm just telling you the facts - that over 50% of the population are net beneficiaries of the state. Just to make it clear, because obviously you and zanaygame don't understand, that doesn't mean that the majority pay no tax. It means that they effectively pay no tax because the state benefits outweigh the tax they pay. If you go back to pre-Brown/Blair times about 60% paid tax. It changed under Blair/Brown.You may be an exception in that you earn a below average wage yet receive no benefits - maybe you have bought your own house and have no children - but you still get the benefit of the NHS. Basically it's pretty near impossible for migrants to come to this country with nothing and live on even an average salary without claiming benefits. And the reason why these people leave France and come to the UK is because the in-work benefits make it easy to come here with nothing and claim large benefits. You can't do that in France. I have never had children and live in a rented housing association flat. This association is not for profit but neither is it subsidised by anyone. I could probably save money by buying the flat due to the vast taxpayer funded discount I could get, but I do not believe in enriching myself at taxpayers' expense, nor in denying my flat to future social housing tenants, and in any case am happy for my landlord to sort out repair and maintenance issues. And your assertion that it is virtually impossible for migrants to come here and earn even an average salary without claiming benefits is bullshit. My Latvian friend managed to do just that and some of her jobs included working for MacDonalds and also working for Tesco, earning well below the national average. Do you think she is wonder woman or something? She is just a typical migrant who came here to work and build a life and whom - like most migrants - has a great work ethic. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 2, 2022 15:51:42 GMT
And who said I ever wanted to drag everyone down to my income level? That is a frequent straw man beloved of right wingers, some shit you make up and then attack as if it is something I ever said, lol. Which is clearly stupid. I do however definitely want the circumstances of those less fortunate than myself to be improved. And if that means people like you paying more tax - win-win. All your self interested bleatings achieve is convince me you deserve to be forced to pay more tax. Bring it on. lol And there, ladies and gents, we have the politics of envy in full flow. Thing is Shrieky, I don't give a flying fornication about your lack of personal achievement but why on Earth should anyone give a second's credence to your economic theories when you're a financial illiterate? You have no credibility in this argument. |
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