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Post by oracle75 on Aug 23, 2023 6:36:31 GMT
Did it work compared to what?
Not having the agreement? yes for thousands of migrants and particularly for Greece and Italy.
Was it perfect in every sense, no.
That is impossible.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 23, 2023 6:54:02 GMT
Did it work compared to what? Not having the agreement? yes for thousands of migrants and particularly for Greece and Italy. Was it perfect in every sense, no. That is impossible. Compared to not being part of the process. We have thousands of illegal migrants who we need to return - did being part of the Dublin Regulation assist us in that process. If it didn't what are we missing by not being in it?. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 23, 2023 7:10:27 GMT
If you had read the link i sent you could answer the question yourself.
The UK redistributed around 215 migrants under the scheme. Many more have been relocated across the EU including into Turkey.
More, i might add, than it has uniquely using methods outside the scheme.
The 3 agreements have had to be redefined as the global migrant numbers have changed.
However difficulties arise when the migrant does not want to be moved.
People are not parcels to be returned to sender or rediricted. Without consent, transporting them is ostensibly people trafficking or kidnap. Different countries have different definitions of this. And they have different motives.
Some are highly questionable and border on ethnic cleansing under international law.
In my opinion the EU alliance is at least trying, as a group of nations with the opportunity to communicate closely, to manage the tens of thousands of migrants who come from multiple places.
One country cannot do it alone. How successful has the UK been?
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 23, 2023 7:20:15 GMT
If you had read the link i sent you could answer the question yourself. The UK redistributed around 215 migrants under the scheme. Many more have been relocated across the EU including into Turkey. More, i might add, than it has uniquely using methods outside the scheme. The 3 agreements have had to be redefined as the global migrant numbers have changed. However difficulties arise when the migrant does not want to be moved. People are not parcels to be returned to sender or rediricted. Without consent, transporting them is ostensibly people trafficking or kidnap. Different countries have different definitions of this. And they have different motives. Some are highly questionable and border on ethnic cleansing under international law. In my opinion the EU alliance is at least trying, as a group of nations with the opportunity to communicate closely, to manage the tens of thousands of migrants who come from multiple places. One country cannot do it alone. How successful has the UK been? So out of several thousand illegal migrants we wanted to deport we actually got rid of 215. The price for getting rid of that 215 was to take in an extra 1200 migrants So as a mechanism for solving the UK's problems it doesn't look particularly promising. |
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Post by Orac on Aug 23, 2023 7:32:41 GMT
If you had read the link i sent you could answer the question yourself. The UK redistributed around 215 migrants under the scheme. Many more have been relocated across the EU including into Turkey. More, i might add, than it has uniquely using methods outside the scheme. The 3 agreements have had to be redefined as the global migrant numbers have changed. However difficulties arise when the migrant does not want to be moved. People are not parcels to be returned to sender or rediricted. Without consent, transporting them is ostensibly people trafficking or kidnap. Different countries have different definitions of this. And they have different motives. Some are highly questionable and border on ethnic cleansing under international law. In my opinion the EU alliance is at least trying, as a group of nations with the opportunity to communicate closely, to manage the tens of thousands of migrants who come from multiple places. One country cannot do it alone. How successful has the UK been? So out of several thousand illegal migrants we wanted to deport we actually got rid of 215. The price for getting rid of that 215 was to take in an extra 1200 migrants So as a mechanism for solving the UK's problems it doesn't look particularly promising. It could only be described as helpful if your aim were to get more asylum seekers into the UK. Oracle is perfectly aware that getting more asylum seekers into the UK is not his/her opposition's objective, so is being dishonest by describing it as potentially helpful to them. The truth is it is helpful to her and her aims and works entirely against the aims of his/her opposition. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 23, 2023 8:31:08 GMT
If you had read the link i sent you could answer the question yourself. The UK redistributed around 215 migrants under the scheme. Many more have been relocated across the EU including into Turkey. More, i might add, than it has uniquely using methods outside the scheme. The 3 agreements have had to be redefined as the global migrant numbers have changed. However difficulties arise when the migrant does not want to be moved. People are not parcels to be returned to sender or rediricted. Without consent, transporting them is ostensibly people trafficking or kidnap. Different countries have different definitions of this. And they have different motives. Some are highly questionable and border on ethnic cleansing under international law. In my opinion the EU alliance is at least trying, as a group of nations with the opportunity to communicate closely, to manage the tens of thousands of migrants who come from multiple places. One country cannot do it alone. How successful has the UK been? So out of several thousand illegal migrants we wanted to deport we actually got rid of 215. The price for getting rid of that 215 was to take in an extra 1200 migrants So as a mechanism for solving the UK's problems it doesn't look particularly promising. You spin it your way, even by ignoring salient points i made about the problem of moving those who do not want to be moved by a state decree. I suppose you wouldnt mind putting them into cattle cars on trains. The mechanism wasnt designed to rid the UK of what it considers a stain on its national purity. It was desogned to help those countries who were geographically subject to most of the tens of thousanss of migrants, borh being countries who arenr comparatively wealthy. It is in fact a good example of the selfish lack of respect for helping out those you call allies. That was always your problem. Me first and sod anyone else. Anyway, you carry on trying to transport people from your safe country to one that forces some of its citizens to flee. How you dare to force migrants who reach your safe country out, while suggesting France receive non French migrants because it is a safe country and must take them in. Why should France take your unwanteds but not the UK? |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 23, 2023 8:37:35 GMT
So out of several thousand illegal migrants we wanted to deport we actually got rid of 215. The price for getting rid of that 215 was to take in an extra 1200 migrants So as a mechanism for solving the UK's problems it doesn't look particularly promising. It could only be described as helpful if your aim were to get more asylum seekers into the UK. Oracle is perfectly aware that getting more asylum seekers into the UK is not his/her opposition's objective, so is being dishonest by describing it as potentially helpful to them. The truth is it is helpful to her and her aims and works entirely against the aims of his/her opposition. Please stop telling me what my aims are. How dare you make such assumptions and then weaponise your creation. My aim is to prevent migration by international law forbidding torture, rape, slavery and violence including kidnapping and destroying property. And that the UN grows some and imposes sanctions on those governments which breaks those laws. Is that clear? |
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Post by buccaneer on Aug 23, 2023 8:58:27 GMT
If you had read the link i sent you could answer the question yourself. The UK redistributed around 215 migrants under the scheme. Many more have been relocated across the EU including into Turkey. More, i might add, than it has uniquely using methods outside the scheme. The 3 agreements have had to be redefined as the global migrant numbers have changed. However difficulties arise when the migrant does not want to be moved. People are not parcels to be returned to sender or rediricted. Without consent, transporting them is ostensibly people trafficking or kidnap. Different countries have different definitions of this. And they have different motives. Some are highly questionable and border on ethnic cleansing under international law. In my opinion the EU alliance is at least trying, as a group of nations with the opportunity to communicate closely, to manage the tens of thousands of migrants who come from multiple places. One country cannot do it alone. How successful has the UK been? So out of several thousand illegal migrants we wanted to deport we actually got rid of 215. The price for getting rid of that 215 was to take in an extra 1200 migrants So as a mechanism for solving the UK's problems it doesn't look particularly promising. 215 - whoop-de-doo! Laughable. Another reason why the extortionate cost of EU membership dismally failed Britain. |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 23, 2023 11:01:35 GMT
So out of several thousand illegal migrants we wanted to deport we actually got rid of 215. The price for getting rid of that 215 was to take in an extra 1200 migrants So as a mechanism for solving the UK's problems it doesn't look particularly promising. You spin it your way, even by ignoring salient points i made about the problem of moving those who do not want to be moved by a state decree. I'm sure they didnt want to be moved but the decision is not up to them. You seem to be moving away from the salient point - that the Dublin Agreement was useless as a method of removing failed Asylum Seekers. As has been pointed out to you by several posters on this thread. |
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 23, 2023 11:26:46 GMT
You spin it your way, even by ignoring salient points i made about the problem of moving those who do not want to be moved by a state decree. I'm sure they didnt want to be moved but the decision is not up to them. You seem to be moving away from the salient point - that the Dublin Agreement was useless as a method of removing failed Asylum Seekers. As has been pointed out to you by several posters on this thread. That is not the subject of this thread.. I already discussed why the MP is a thick idiot. when the UK finds the solution and stops blaming everyone else, get back to me. |
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Post by Vinny on Aug 23, 2023 12:51:27 GMT
Did it work compared to what? Not having the agreement? yes for thousands of migrants and particularly for Greece and Italy. Was it perfect in every sense, no. That is impossible. Compared to not being part of the process. We have thousands of illegal migrants who we need to return - did being part of the Dublin Regulation assist us in that process. If it didn't what are we missing by not being in it?. Dublin agreement did fuck all. Out of all requests to deport under the Dublin Regulation, only 7% of requests were successful.
A better policy is needed.
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Post by oracle75 on Aug 23, 2023 15:47:11 GMT
Compared to not being part of the process. We have thousands of illegal migrants who we need to return - did being part of the Dublin Regulation assist us in that process. If it didn't what are we missing by not being in it?. Dublin agreement did fuck all. Out of all requests to deport under the Dublin Regulation, only 7% of requests were successful.
A better policy is needed.
And the percentage of removals of migrants from the UK to another country under the UK government schemes since Brexit is...what? |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 23, 2023 17:17:13 GMT
Compared to not being part of the process. We have thousands of illegal migrants who we need to return - did being part of the Dublin Regulation assist us in that process. If it didn't what are we missing by not being in it?. Dublin agreement did fuck all. Out of all requests to deport under the Dublin Regulation, only 7% of requests were successful.
A better policy is needed.
It wasn't even that high - and to be fair that also applies to some of the other countries in the EU as well, so it's not just the UK where the Dublin Regulation was a waste of space. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Aug 23, 2023 19:06:19 GMT
Which then begs the question of why we are trying to replicate it.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 23, 2023 19:33:38 GMT
If we have no cooperation and zero leverage with other nations ( France) to control out borders then we should apply that leverage to the illegal migrants and traffickers.
It was suggested in another forum far far away that we should use our special forces to neutralise the traffickers.
They might be right .
As well as considering the illegal migrants as criminal aliens , of course.
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