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Post by steppenwolf on Aug 8, 2023 6:06:45 GMT
I'm more concerned about the likes of former Labour MP Claudia Webbe who was found guilty of a serious crime and still stands in Parliament as an Independent. At least Dorries isn't a criminal. And she's free to do as little work as she likes. That's the way it works. If her constituents don't like it they can boot her out.
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 8, 2023 6:35:01 GMT
The question is what should happen to MPs who told their voters at the election that they would be active representing them but then lost interest half way through. Should they be forced out or is that just tough for the constituents? Does your answer change if the MP concerned happens to be Labour instead of Tory? Name a single MP who has delivered everything they promised at the election. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 8, 2023 6:52:54 GMT
As I said the Trumpian partisanship has travelled over the Atlantic. More interest in defending your tribe than recognising bad behaviour regardless of tribe.
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2023 6:56:37 GMT
If you allow recall elections by voters then it would cause chaos - it would be like the Brexit vote where half the electorate dont accept the result and fight tooth and nail for the next 5 years for a re-run. If the voters dont like what she has done then they are free to vote her out at the next GE. Eh? The tories were vocal and loud about the recall of margaret ferrier , but either silent or apologetic regarding dorries?
seems a bit like double standards to me.
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2023 7:02:00 GMT
I have some sympathy for Pacifico's view that universal right to recall has its own problems. In probably over half of the seats at the last election, the winning MP got less than 50% of the vote. Given the decline in popularity of the Tories, probably even more of their MPs would currently be less than 50%. You surely can't have a recall with out due cause. In Dorries case she appears to have abandoned her constituency and her responsibilities. Its not fair that her constituents should have no MP representing them for an extended period against their will. Then you have the Sinn Fein MPs who don't take up their seats so those constituents are not being represented either. But then they knew that would be the case but still chose them. Its complicated. Maybe the answer is to allow a committee of MPs (say 6 MPs + the speaker) to consider ordering by-elections for badly behaving MPs but only with 5 of 7 of the committee support. Im not sure why dorries isnt being recalled , but once again as you point out it highlights the remarkable state of that parliament of yours , and its anti democratic tendencies.
Re call at the minute does have its flaws , and could be tidied up for the better. In the ferrier case , she was recalled by half the number of constituents who elected her , which to me isnt democracy.
The fact dorries can carry on as an mp without any reprimand that im aware of shows the farce of what little rules there are at westmsinter.
Not sure the sinn fein case is applicable , when they dont recognise the jurisdiction of your countires parliament over the part of their nation that you still rule.
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Post by Hutchyns on Aug 8, 2023 7:03:36 GMT
Haven't we had MPs elected for one Party, who have then crossed the floor and joined another ? Plenty of constituents have been narked at the behaviour of their MP but you have to adjudge whether it's a potentially dodgy character you're entrusting power to, when deciding whether to vote for them or not.
On the specific case of Dorries, dappy in his opening post describes her behaviour as 'outrageous', whereas for her part, it is clear that Dorries views the backroom shenanigans at No.10 that denied her a peerage to be even more outrageous. While she declared her intention to resign in a fit of pique, it subsequently became evident to her that to press for and demand the information and answers she wants relating to that episode, she needs to be in Westminster, and with the standing of an MP. If I was her constituent I'd say more power to her elbow in exposing the double dealing and underhand tactics that Rishi's underlings employed to prevent the will of the former Prime Minister regarding the award of honours being enacted, while naturally also being disappointed if she's not also maintaining a reasonable standard of engagement with constituents. On balance I'd back her cause over trying to unseat her.
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2023 7:03:45 GMT
If you allow recall elections by voters then it would cause chaos - it would be like the Brexit vote where half the electorate dont accept the result and fight tooth and nail for the next 5 years for a re-run. If the voters dont like what she has done then they are free to vote her out at the next GE. There was one in Scotland to get rid of that Covid spreading muck bag. Recall votes to get rid of crooked MPs are a good idea. What about charles , your king vinny? Can we have a recall on getting rid of him for spreading covid on his travel from london to balmoral? |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 8, 2023 7:04:00 GMT
As I said the Trumpian partisanship has travelled over the Atlantic. More interest in defending your tribe than recognising bad behaviour regardless of tribe. Well you would know everything about partisanship - have you managed to dig out a single MP who delivered on all their promises? |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 8, 2023 7:05:45 GMT
If you allow recall elections by voters then it would cause chaos - it would be like the Brexit vote where half the electorate dont accept the result and fight tooth and nail for the next 5 years for a re-run. If the voters dont like what she has done then they are free to vote her out at the next GE. Eh? The tories were vocal and loud about the recall of margaret ferrier , but either silent or apologetic regarding dorries?
seems a bit like double standards to me.
Ferrier broke the Law and was suspended from Parliament - hence she triggered the recall process. What Law has Dorries broken? |
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2023 7:06:28 GMT
There was one in Scotland to get rid of that Covid spreading muck bag. Recall votes to get rid of crooked MPs are a good idea. That was because she met one of the criteria for allowing a recall election. MPs can be recalled under three circumstances: Conviction in the UK of any offence and sentenced or ordered to be imprisoned or detained, after all appeals have been exhausted. Note – a sentence over 12 months in jail automatically disqualifies someone from being an MP; Suspension from the House following report and recommended sanction from the Committee on Standards for a specified period (at least 10 sitting days, or at least 14 days if sitting days are not specified); Convicted of an offence under section 10 of the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009 (making false or misleading Parliamentary allowances claims). Note – the sentence does not have to be custodial for this condition. There are no sanctions for an MP who is not doing their job. As was pointed out earlier, SF/IRA MP's have never attended Parliament but if that is who their voters want to elect it's nobody elses business. then the law is an arse . In any job in the real world, if you dont do your job , then you are out the door. Dorries actions , and the lack of action against her for all the puerile reason given , makes westminster even more of a laughing stock. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2023 7:14:08 GMT
Eh? The tories were vocal and loud about the recall of margaret ferrier , but either silent or apologetic regarding dorries?
seems a bit like double standards to me.
Ferrier broke the Law and was suspended from Parliament - hence she triggered the recall process. What Law has Dorries broken? Not doing her job to me is as great a reason for recall than breaking laws. |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 8, 2023 7:16:28 GMT
Ferrier broke the Law and was suspended from Parliament - hence she triggered the recall process. What Law has Dorries broken? Not doing her job to me is as great a reason for recall than breaking laws. Who decides whether a politician is doing their job to a standard that is acceptable? and what are these standards? |
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Post by Handyman on Aug 8, 2023 7:19:32 GMT
The question is what should happen to MPs who told their voters at the election that they would be active representing them but then lost interest half way through. Should they be forced out or is that just tough for the constituents? Does your answer change if the MP concerned happens to be Labour instead of Tory? Name a single MP who has delivered everything they promised at the election. Indeed it has never happened and never will |
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Post by thomas on Aug 8, 2023 7:21:35 GMT
Not doing her job to me is as great a reason for recall than breaking laws. Who decides whether a politician is doing their job to a standard that is acceptable? and what are these standards? your own prime minister has said she isnt doing her job properly and not representing her constituents.
Isnt it pretty damning when your own pm and party leader tells people you arent doing your job?
In his LBC interview, Mr Sunak set out what he thought people had a right to expect from their MPs.
"It's just making sure your MP is engaging with you, representing you, whether that's speaking in Parliament or being present in their constituencies doing surgeries, answering your letters.
"That's the job of an MP and all MPs should be held to that standard."
Asked if that meant Ms Dorries was failing her constituents, Mr Sunak said: "Well, at the moment, people aren't being properly represented."
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 8, 2023 7:23:16 GMT
Who decides whether a politician is doing their job to a standard that is acceptable? and what are these standards? your own prime minister has said she isnt doing her job properly and not representing her constituents.
Isnt it pretty damning when your own pm and party leader tells people you arent doing your job?
In his LBC interview, Mr Sunak set out what he thought people had a right to expect from their MPs.
"It's just making sure your MP is engaging with you, representing you, whether that's speaking in Parliament or being present in their constituencies doing surgeries, answering your letters.
"That's the job of an MP and all MPs should be held to that standard."
Asked if that meant Ms Dorries was failing her constituents, Mr Sunak said: "Well, at the moment, people aren't being properly represented."
So you want other politicians to decide? |
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