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Post by thomas on Aug 11, 2023 7:08:20 GMT
it didnt. Not only that , the organisation that posted the data clearly say flooding is becoming more prevalent due to climate change. A clear case sandy of not reading your own link , and what the organisation behind the link believes.
Further , in various other article , the worst flooding in the uk have all happened either before , or after , the 1930`s , so what are you talking about?
Thames Flood of 1928
Who’d have thought that an event about 80 miles west of London would cause a disaster in the capital? When heavy snow in the Cotswolds, the source of the Thames, thawed in early January 1928, it doubled the water volume and the turning tide caused an upstream surge.
Lynmouth Flood of 1952
Such was the severity of the Lynmouth Flood, the former lifeboat station was re-imagined as a memorial hall to honour the 34 residents who lost their lives.
Great Flood of 1968
6,250 square kilometres of land - stretching roughly from Hampshire and Sussex across Surrey, Kent, and Essex - was hit with over 100mm of torrential rainfall during July and September 1968.
Boscastle Flood of 2004
About one billion litres of water crashed through Boscastle in Cornwall on 16th August 2004. Two rivers, Valency and Jordan, burst their banks due to 75mm of rain falling in just two hours
UK Floods of 2007
The May to July period in 2007 was the wettest since records began in 1776. June was one of the wettest months on record with double the national average rainfall across the whole of the country
in this one they talk about the floods of 1947..
Where do they say flooding is becoming more prevalent due to climate change? They say the risk of flooding is increasing which is not the same thing. Have a look through the data the 1930s is the period when most flash floods occurred according to the chronology. Specific events are not trends, they may be part of a trend. sandy again your are arguing semantics .i posted data from the met office showing the uk has become 6% wetter over the last 30 years , and places like wales 10 per cent wetter.
I also posted a link earlier on page 29 , where the jba trust , the organisation you quoted earlier , said this....
Now , im not arguing that man made global warming is definetly causing flooding . I have said earlier there is a number of factors involved. Im simply pointing out one of your own sources is arguing that cliamte change is making flooding more likely and the met office is saying the last 30 years has seen the uk become wetter.
i have done , and i cant see what you are saying. More to the point i ve posted a couple of links about the worst floods in the modern era , and while most of them were in the 20th century , none was mentioned from the 1930`s.
I seem to be the one doing all the heavy lifting , posting links to back up what is being said. You post a link , claim it says something it doesnt , and then carry on as though what you have erronously posted is irrefutable truth.
Post a link about the 1930`with proof this is the period were most flood occured please. over to you?
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Post by thomas on Aug 11, 2023 7:19:26 GMT
it didnt. Not only that , the organisation that posted the data clearly say flooding is becoming more prevalent due to climate change. A clear case sandy of not reading your own link , and what the organisation behind the link believes.
Further , in various other article , the worst flooding in the uk have all happened either before , or after , the 1930`s , so what are you talking about?
Thames Flood of 1928
Who’d have thought that an event about 80 miles west of London would cause a disaster in the capital? When heavy snow in the Cotswolds, the source of the Thames, thawed in early January 1928, it doubled the water volume and the turning tide caused an upstream surge.
Lynmouth Flood of 1952
Such was the severity of the Lynmouth Flood, the former lifeboat station was re-imagined as a memorial hall to honour the 34 residents who lost their lives.
Great Flood of 1968
6,250 square kilometres of land - stretching roughly from Hampshire and Sussex across Surrey, Kent, and Essex - was hit with over 100mm of torrential rainfall during July and September 1968.
Boscastle Flood of 2004
About one billion litres of water crashed through Boscastle in Cornwall on 16th August 2004. Two rivers, Valency and Jordan, burst their banks due to 75mm of rain falling in just two hours
UK Floods of 2007
The May to July period in 2007 was the wettest since records began in 1776. June was one of the wettest months on record with double the national average rainfall across the whole of the country
in this one they talk about the floods of 1947..
You have to be careful with "worst floods" flood defences have improved dramatically since 1960. The Thames barrier and the Essex sea defences for instance. Boscastle was an accident waiting to happen, that couldn't happen now due to works carried out. sure. Thats a fair point. It further proves my earlier argument there are many reasons and variations to consider when talking about the effects of climate change. |
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Post by jonksy on Aug 11, 2023 7:25:41 GMT
The one you said plastic waste was contributing to. You're really not very good at this are you. I do wish you bumburgers would be consistent. You state it requires maths to come up for a true figure of the oceans content. But can categorically state there is global warming with a total disregard of the maths and other factors involved. And you acusse others of not being very good...Shame on you. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Aug 11, 2023 7:36:09 GMT
That's all very well, Thomas, but we all know that the climate is changing. What we don't know is why. That's what the argument is about. And I'm not sure that the weather in Britain is particularly relevant because of our almost unique position. Our weather is dependent on about 5 air masses - that's why we spend so much time talking about it.
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Post by thomas on Aug 11, 2023 14:15:50 GMT
That's all very well, Thomas, but we all know that the climate is changing. What we don't know is why. That's what the argument is about. And I'm not sure that the weather in Britain is particularly relevant because of our almost unique position. Our weather is dependent on about 5 air masses - that's why we spend so much time talking about it. fully agree steppenwolf. Thats in part been my point to zany and sandy , while pulling up sandy for the guff he has been talking. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 11, 2023 14:24:12 GMT
Where do they say flooding is becoming more prevalent due to climate change? They say the risk of flooding is increasing which is not the same thing. Have a look through the data the 1930s is the period when most flash floods occurred according to the chronology. Specific events are not trends, they may be part of a trend. sandy again your are arguing semantics .i posted data from the met office showing the uk has become 6% wetter over the last 30 years , and places like wales 10 per cent wetter.
I also posted a link earlier on page 29 , where the jba trust , the organisation you quoted earlier , said this....
Now , im not arguing that man made global warming is definetly causing flooding . I have said earlier there is a number of factors involved. Im simply pointing out one of your own sources is arguing that cliamte change is making flooding more likely and the met office is saying the last 30 years has seen the uk become wetter.
i have done , and i cant see what you are saying. More to the point i ve posted a couple of links about the worst floods in the modern era , and while most of them were in the 20th century , none was mentioned from the 1930`s.
I seem to be the one doing all the heavy lifting , posting links to back up what is being said. You post a link , claim it says something it doesnt , and then carry on as though what you have erronously posted is irrefutable truth.
Post a link about the 1930`with proof this is the period were most flood occured please. over to you?
I am the one arguing semantics?? The UK has become wetter over the last 30 years compared to the previous thirty years is not the same as saying the UK is becoming wetter. I repeat the rainfall averages for England and Wales shows no increasing trend since modern records began. Scotland has become wetter, that is not in dispute, England and Wales have not that is the public record. The flash flood chronology is not the same as flooding. They go into the definition of flash flooding in some detail. Perhaps if you look at this link it lists it in an easier fashion for totals. onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jfr3.12721Now to be clear do you really not understand the difference between saying something is more likely to occur and saying something has occurred? The main thrust of Zany's argument was that flash flooding is becoming worse. I have asked for evidence and data that that is the case but all I get is is flooding is more likely. As time goes on it becomes more likely you will accept my argument that in no way says, implies or hints that that has actually happened. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 11, 2023 14:37:27 GMT
sandy again your are arguing semantics .i posted data from the met office showing the uk has become 6% wetter over the last 30 years , and places like wales 10 per cent wetter.
I also posted a link earlier on page 29 , where the jba trust , the organisation you quoted earlier , said this....
Now , im not arguing that man made global warming is definetly causing flooding . I have said earlier there is a number of factors involved. Im simply pointing out one of your own sources is arguing that cliamte change is making flooding more likely and the met office is saying the last 30 years has seen the uk become wetter.
i have done , and i cant see what you are saying. More to the point i ve posted a couple of links about the worst floods in the modern era , and while most of them were in the 20th century , none was mentioned from the 1930`s.
I seem to be the one doing all the heavy lifting , posting links to back up what is being said. You post a link , claim it says something it doesnt , and then carry on as though what you have erronously posted is irrefutable truth.
Post a link about the 1930`with proof this is the period were most flood occured please. over to you?
I am the one arguing semantics?? The UK has become wetter over the last 30 years compared to the previous thirty years is not the same as saying the UK is becoming wetter. I repeat the rainfall averages for England and Wales shows no increasing trend since modern records began. Scotland has become wetter, that is not in dispute, England and Wales have not that is the public record. round and round we go. Scotland becoming wetter is in dispute as we only have your word to take for it. After all these exchanges you still cant back that up. so im afraid im going to have to call you out on that unless you can prove otherwise?
As for england becoming wetter , we have already posted links saying england has got wetter since records began in 1776 .?so what are you talking about apart from rehashing earlier arguments you havent proved?
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Post by sandypine on Aug 11, 2023 14:49:10 GMT
I am the one arguing semantics?? The UK has become wetter over the last 30 years compared to the previous thirty years is not the same as saying the UK is becoming wetter. I repeat the rainfall averages for England and Wales shows no increasing trend since modern records began. Scotland has become wetter, that is not in dispute, England and Wales have not that is the public record. round and round we go. Scotland becoming wetter is in dispute as we only have your word to take for it. After all these exchanges you still cant back that up. so im afraid im going to have to call you out on that unless you can prove otherwise?
As for england becoming wetter , we have already posted links saying england has got wetter since records began in 1776 .?so what are you talking about apart from rehashing earlier arguments you havent proved?
What links showing England is wetter? You linked showing two thirty years periods Scotland is wetter since the turn of the 19th century by all means dispute it but at least post a rebuttal based on some data. In the end it is of relatively little importance as England and Wales are stable. Have you looked at the 1930s yet? Do you know the difference between something becoming more likely and something actually happening. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 12, 2023 16:41:11 GMT
round and round we go. Scotland becoming wetter is in dispute as we only have your word to take for it. After all these exchanges you still cant back that up. so im afraid im going to have to call you out on that unless you can prove otherwise?
As for england becoming wetter , we have already posted links saying england has got wetter since records began in 1776 .?so what are you talking about apart from rehashing earlier arguments you havent proved?
What links showing England is wetter? You linked showing two thirty years periods Scotland is wetter since the turn of the 19th century by all means dispute it but at least post a rebuttal based on some data. In the end it is of relatively little importance as England and Wales are stable. Have you looked at the 1930s yet? Do you know the difference between something becoming more likely and something actually happening. you havent proved scotland has become wetter. All ive asked for is a link to see what you are talking about. Ive also looked at the 1930`s for flooding of biblical proportions and still dont have a clue what you are talking about?
Over to you? links please?
yes , as ive already given you links proving from data compiled by the metoffice whci say the opposite of what you claim.
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Post by sandypine on Aug 12, 2023 19:18:45 GMT
What links showing England is wetter? You linked showing two thirty years periods Scotland is wetter since the turn of the 19th century by all means dispute it but at least post a rebuttal based on some data. In the end it is of relatively little importance as England and Wales are stable. Have you looked at the 1930s yet? Do you know the difference between something becoming more likely and something actually happening. you havent proved scotland has become wetter. All ive asked for is a link to see what you are talking about. Ive also looked at the 1930`s for flooding of biblical proportions and still dont have a clue what you are talking about?
Over to you? links please?
yes , as ive already given you links proving from data compiled by the metoffice whci say the opposite of what you claim.
You have a link showing Scotland has become wetter in the last hundred years. A reasonable time frame to assess a trend, check the trend. Your links do not show England becoming wetter in the last hundred years they compare the last thirty years with the previous thirty years. The ongoing trend is not wetter. Perhaps you have a different link. Why are you looking for biblical proportion floods when all that was discussed was flash flooding? There is a list of flash flooding events and the 30s is head and shoulders above the rest. Horses and water rings a bell for me, but that is the warmist game. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 12, 2023 19:42:33 GMT
you havent proved scotland has become wetter. All ive asked for is a link to see what you are talking about. Ive also looked at the 1930`s for flooding of biblical proportions and still dont have a clue what you are talking about?
Over to you? links please?
yes , as ive already given you links proving from data compiled by the metoffice whci say the opposite of what you claim.
You have a link showing Scotland has become wetter in the last hundred years. A reasonable time frame to assess a trend, check the trend. where? I must have missed it , but surely if you are going to use a link to claim england hasnt become wetter over the last three hundred years , then you must put that against similar data for scotland?
i never said it did , and why are we talking about the last hundred years? Is this something new you have just suddenly introduced into the debate to further murky the water?
you are losing me now sandy , and i suspect yourself into the bargain. Its always the same with people who spin such a web of decit they cant keep up with their own spin. The ongoing trend for who is not getting wetter?
If england , clearly the data says otherwise . If the uk , you even admitted yourself earlier in the thread that it is the case the uk is getting wetter.
link please?
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Post by sandypine on Aug 12, 2023 19:55:52 GMT
You have a link showing Scotland has become wetter in the last hundred years. A reasonable time frame to assess a trend, check the trend. where? I must have missed it , but surely if you are going to use a link to claim england hasnt become wetter over the last three hundred years , then you must put that against similar data for scotland?
i never said it did , and why are we talking about the last hundred years? Is this something new you have just suddenly introduced into the debate to further murky the water?
you are losing me now sandy , and i suspect yourself into the bargain. Its always the same with people who spin such a web of decit they cant keep up with their own spin. The ongoing trend for who is not getting wetter?
If england , clearly the data says otherwise . If the uk , you even admitted yourself earlier in the thread that it is the case the uk is getting wetter.
link please?
As I said horses to water, you have had all the links and generally ignored, misinterpreted or belittled them as where you said the trust I linked to were saying England was becoming wetter when they said was likely to become wetter. Good game whilst it lasted but it matters little what I say as the game is afoot. I will leave it to others to decide. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 12, 2023 20:06:17 GMT
where? I must have missed it , but surely if you are going to use a link to claim england hasnt become wetter over the last three hundred years , then you must put that against similar data for scotland?
i never said it did , and why are we talking about the last hundred years? Is this something new you have just suddenly introduced into the debate to further murky the water?
you are losing me now sandy , and i suspect yourself into the bargain. Its always the same with people who spin such a web of decit they cant keep up with their own spin. The ongoing trend for who is not getting wetter?
If england , clearly the data says otherwise . If the uk , you even admitted yourself earlier in the thread that it is the case the uk is getting wetter.
link please?
As I said horses to water, you have had all the links and generally ignored, misinterpreted or belittled them as where you said the trust I linked to were saying England was becoming wetter when they said was likely to become wetter. Good game whilst it lasted but it matters little what I say as the game is afoot. I will leave it to others to decide. so you keep claiming things that generally you cant back up with links. Then you claim the few links you do post show things they dont . im only trying to get to the heart of the matter , while you continue relentlessly to muddy the water.
Even your basic geography and climate knowledge is bizarre , like when you claimed the north is wetter than the south and seemed oblivious to the west east difference in terms of precipitation.
I simply asked for a link sandy. You dont need to leave it to others to decide , im talking to you , you to me. If you cant back up , or try and prove what you say , why should i take you serious?
General forum etiquette normally requires a poster try and back up his points.
Lets go back to the start. You initially and bizarrely claimed the uk isnt becoming wetter , but it is when scotland is thrown in.  You showed me a link for england s weather going back three hundred years , but cant supply similar for scotland , which your whole bizarre argument hinges on . 
You then supplied a further link from an organisation that states openly flooding is becoming more of a problem , while claiming the opposite.
as i said earlier sandy , in the politist way ,but straight to the point ,you are bullshitting.
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Post by sandypine on Aug 13, 2023 9:30:17 GMT
As I said horses to water, you have had all the links and generally ignored, misinterpreted or belittled them as where you said the trust I linked to were saying England was becoming wetter when they said was likely to become wetter. Good game whilst it lasted but it matters little what I say as the game is afoot. I will leave it to others to decide. so you keep claiming things that generally you cant back up with links. Then you claim the few links you do post show things they dont . im only trying to get to the heart of the matter , while you continue relentlessly to muddy the water.
Even your basic geography and climate knowledge is bizarre , like when you claimed the north is wetter than the south and seemed oblivious to the west east difference in terms of precipitation.
I simply asked for a link sandy. You dont need to leave it to others to decide , im talking to you , you to me. If you cant back up , or try and prove what you say , why should i take you serious?
General forum etiquette normally requires a poster try and back up his points.
Lets go back to the start. You initially and bizarrely claimed the uk isnt becoming wetter , but it is when scotland is thrown in. You showed me a link for england s weather going back three hundred years , but cant supply similar for scotland , which your whole bizarre argument hinges on .
You then supplied a further link from an organisation that states openly flooding is becoming more of a problem , while claiming the opposite.
as i said earlier sandy , in the politist way ,but straight to the point ,you are bullshitting.
Let us take it slowly one point per post. Zany claimed that flash flooding is becoming worse. I linked to the flash flood chronology and even provided a simpler link onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jfr3.12721If one scrolls down to table 1 one finds that the period with the largest number of flash floods was the decade of the 1930s with 628 reported instances of flash floods. The co-responding results for 2000-2010 and 2010-2020 are 513 and 312 respectively. So can we agree on that point in the first instance. There is no evidence that flash floods are becoming more common and what evidence exists indicates that the trend is not increasing. I am quite prepared to look at and consider evidence that indicates the opposite but Zany produced nothing an neither have you. |
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Post by zanygame on Aug 13, 2023 11:17:59 GMT
As I said, comparing flooding (flash or otherwise) from 1930 with today is meaningless.
As so much work has been done since then.
All i could say was what the met office said.
Not to mention picking one unusual year.
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You showed me a link for england s weather going back three hundred years , but cant supply similar for scotland , which your whole bizarre argument hinges on . 