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Post by thomas on Aug 13, 2023 13:08:57 GMT
so you keep claiming things that generally you cant back up with links. Then you claim the few links you do post show things they dont . im only trying to get to the heart of the matter , while you continue relentlessly to muddy the water.
Even your basic geography and climate knowledge is bizarre , like when you claimed the north is wetter than the south and seemed oblivious to the west east difference in terms of precipitation.
I simply asked for a link sandy. You dont need to leave it to others to decide , im talking to you , you to me. If you cant back up , or try and prove what you say , why should i take you serious?
General forum etiquette normally requires a poster try and back up his points.
Lets go back to the start. You initially and bizarrely claimed the uk isnt becoming wetter , but it is when scotland is thrown in.  You showed me a link for england s weather going back three hundred years , but cant supply similar for scotland , which your whole bizarre argument hinges on . 
You then supplied a further link from an organisation that states openly flooding is becoming more of a problem , while claiming the opposite.
as i said earlier sandy , in the politist way ,but straight to the point ,you are bullshitting.
Let us take it slowly one point per post. Zany claimed that flash flooding is becoming worse. I linked to the flash flood chronology and even provided a simpler link onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jfr3.12721If one scrolls down to table 1 one finds that the period with the largest number of flash floods was the decade of the 1930s with 628 reported instances of flash floods. The co-responding results for 2000-2010 and 2010-2020 are 513 and 312 respectively. So can we agree on that point in the first instance. There is no evidence that flash floods are becoming more common and what evidence exists indicates that the trend is not increasing. I am quite prepared to look at and consider evidence that indicates the opposite but Zany produced nothing an neither have you. Sandy we dont have to take it slowly. Ive been reading your posts and links so far with ease , and i couldnt see what you were claiming. So i stand by what i have said so far regarding your initial comments , and absurd twisting regarding the uk not being wetter but is when scotland is thrown in.
I agree though lets look at your latest post and specifically your claim regarding flash flooding.
Now from your own link , i fully concede the period 1930 - 1940 has the biggest single record of floods recorded. Bear in mind your own link talks about how limited the data was , relying prior to 1960 on newspaper records.
So lets not muddy any of that further , i concede this point to you.
This though is where i take issue with you yet agin.
your own table and links covers the period from 1700 to 2020 , a period of 320 years covering the island of britian.
The total number of floods recorded was 7941.in the first 160 years . 1700 to 1860 , the number of floods recorded was 1228. from 1860 to 2020 , the number was 6713.
So by your own records , flood recordings are massively increasing over the last 160 years compared to the previous 160 years. So what are you talking about?
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Post by sandypine on Aug 13, 2023 15:02:26 GMT
Let us take it slowly one point per post. Zany claimed that flash flooding is becoming worse. I linked to the flash flood chronology and even provided a simpler link onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jfr3.12721If one scrolls down to table 1 one finds that the period with the largest number of flash floods was the decade of the 1930s with 628 reported instances of flash floods. The co-responding results for 2000-2010 and 2010-2020 are 513 and 312 respectively. So can we agree on that point in the first instance. There is no evidence that flash floods are becoming more common and what evidence exists indicates that the trend is not increasing. I am quite prepared to look at and consider evidence that indicates the opposite but Zany produced nothing an neither have you. Sandy we dont have to take it slowly. Ive been reading your posts and links so far with ease , and i couldnt see what you were claiming. So i stand by what i have said so far regarding your initial comments , and absurd twisting regarding the uk not being wetter but is when scotland is thrown in.
I agree though lets look at your latest post and specifically your claim regarding flash flooding.
Now from your own link , i fully concede the period 1930 - 1940 has the biggest single record of floods recorded. Bear in mind your own link talks about how limited the data was , relying prior to 1960 on newspaper records.
So lets not muddy any of that further , i concede this point to you.
This though is where i take issue with you yet agin.
your own table and links covers the period from 1700 to 2020 , a period of 320 years covering the island of britian.
The total number of floods recorded was 7941.in the first 160 years . 1700 to 1860 , the number of floods recorded was 1228. from 1860 to 2020 , the number was 6713.
So by your own records , flood recordings are massively increasing over the last 160 years compared to the previous 160 years. So what are you talking about?
The warmists claim it is all down to post 1850 industrialisation and the increase in CO2 after that date so the only important values are after that date in terms of flash floods which I concede is subjective however no one else has anything to offer other than 'I think they are becoming worse'. That is also the period where reporting became much more widespread. Remember the argument is flash floods are becoming more common now, not that they became more common 100 years ago. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 13, 2023 15:07:33 GMT
As I said, comparing flooding (flash or otherwise) from 1930 with today is meaningless. As so much work has been done since then. All i could say was what the met office said. Not to mention picking one unusual year. It is the decade of the 1930s compared to other decades. There is the problem incomplete consideration of a link and casual dismissal for all the wrong reasons. Did the Met office say flash flooding is becoming worse or did they say flash flooding is likely to increase? |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 13, 2023 15:09:53 GMT
So let us consider rainfall. England an Wales as I linked to have not seen an increasing trend in rainfall. Is that accepted?
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Post by thomas on Aug 13, 2023 15:35:28 GMT
Sandy we dont have to take it slowly. Ive been reading your posts and links so far with ease , and i couldnt see what you were claiming. So i stand by what i have said so far regarding your initial comments , and absurd twisting regarding the uk not being wetter but is when scotland is thrown in.
I agree though lets look at your latest post and specifically your claim regarding flash flooding.
Now from your own link , i fully concede the period 1930 - 1940 has the biggest single record of floods recorded. Bear in mind your own link talks about how limited the data was , relying prior to 1960 on newspaper records.
So lets not muddy any of that further , i concede this point to you.
This though is where i take issue with you yet agin.
your own table and links covers the period from 1700 to 2020 , a period of 320 years covering the island of britian.
The total number of floods recorded was 7941.in the first 160 years . 1700 to 1860 , the number of floods recorded was 1228. from 1860 to 2020 , the number was 6713.
So by your own records , flood recordings are massively increasing over the last 160 years compared to the previous 160 years. So what are you talking about?
The warmists claim it is all down to post 1850 industrialisation and the increase in CO2 after that date so the only important values are after that date in terms of flash floods which I concede is subjective however no one else has anything to offer other than 'I think they are becoming worse'. That is also the period where reporting became much more widespread. Remember the argument is flash floods are becoming more common now, not that they became more common 100 years ago. right , so the correlation between 1850 industrialisation and co2 increase matches the correlation in your own tables in terms of increased floodings?
So over 320 period , 85 % more or less of floods have been recorded in the last 160 years? Whats the argument sandy?
I had the honesty and integrity to concede a small point to you when you finally backed one of your claims up about the 1930 s , but you dont have the decency to do like wise ?
As i said earlier sandy , you are bullshitting. how sad.
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Post by thomas on Aug 13, 2023 15:55:02 GMT
So let us consider rainfall. England an Wales as I linked to have not seen an increasing trend in rainfall. Is that accepted? england and wales is not the uk , and not britian. you talk about british flood chronology , and now wish to cherry pick certain areas to suit your lame argument You yourself clamied , and i repeat once more in spite of your non stop wriggling , that the uk hadnt become wetter , apart from when you add scotland in.(over a three hundred year timescale. the metoffice is claiming england and wales is getting wetter over the last thirty years let it be said.)
So you concede above the uk is getting wetter , but cant supply the figures for scotland to back up your claim either way.
over to you sandy. No more wriggling.
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Post by sandypine on Aug 13, 2023 16:36:35 GMT
The warmists claim it is all down to post 1850 industrialisation and the increase in CO2 after that date so the only important values are after that date in terms of flash floods which I concede is subjective however no one else has anything to offer other than 'I think they are becoming worse'. That is also the period where reporting became much more widespread. Remember the argument is flash floods are becoming more common now, not that they became more common 100 years ago. right , so the correlation between 1850 industrialisation and co2 increase matches the correlation in your own tables in terms of increased floodings?
So over 320 period , 85 % more or less of floods have been recorded in the last 160 years? Whats the argument sandy?
I had the honesty and integrity to concede a small point to you when you finally backed one of your claims up about the 1930 s , but you dont have the decency to do like wise ?
As i said earlier sandy , you are bullshitting. how sad.
Well once again we are in the realms of increased as in has happened and increasing which is happening. CO2 is rising and is according to the warmists leading to increasing flash floods (let us keep the terminology consistent) yet there is no trend of increasing. In fact since the 1930s the trend in flash floods is decreasing. I would hope you would concede a point when I am right and I would not hesitate to concede a point when you are right, so far you seem to wish to play as opposed to look at the figures both dispassionately and honestly. To be clear I am not saying anything as regards the climate other than in general terms of long term trends which do not back up the warmists statements that flash floods are increasing. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 13, 2023 16:40:42 GMT
right , so the correlation between 1850 industrialisation and co2 increase matches the correlation in your own tables in terms of increased floodings?
So over 320 period , 85 % more or less of floods have been recorded in the last 160 years? Whats the argument sandy?
I had the honesty and integrity to concede a small point to you when you finally backed one of your claims up about the 1930 s , but you dont have the decency to do like wise ?
As i said earlier sandy , you are bullshitting. how sad.
Well once again we are in the realms of increased as in has happened and increasing which is happening. CO2 is rising and is according to the warmists leading to increasing flash floods (let us keep the terminology consistent) yet there is no trend of increasing. In fact since the 1930s the trend in flash floods is decreasing. I would hope you would concede a point when I am right and I would not hesitate to concede a point when you are right, so far you seem to wish to play as opposed to look at the figures both dispassionately and honestly. To be clear I am not saying anything as regards the climate other than in general terms of long term trends which do not back up the warmists statements that flash floods are increasing. no i wont .
Im simply pointing out to you your link once again says the oppisite to what you imply. 85 % of flood recordings over 320 year period , have happened in the last 160 years.
Thats quite a damning statistic sandy. you talked about a trend , and i just gave you one from your own link.
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Post by sandypine on Aug 13, 2023 16:50:41 GMT
So let us consider rainfall. England an Wales as I linked to have not seen an increasing trend in rainfall. Is that accepted? england and wales is not the uk , and not britian. you talk about british flood chronology , and now wish to cherry pick certain areas to suit your lame argument You yourself clamied , and i repeat once more in spite of your non stop wriggling , that the uk hadnt become wetter , apart from when you add scotland in.(over a three hundred year timescale. the metoffice is claiming england and wales is getting wetter over the last thirty years let it be said.)
So you concede above the uk is getting wetter , but cant supply the figures for scotland to back up your claim either way.
over to you sandy. No more wriggling.
However it was England specifically that was said to be becoming wetter and gaining a Med stryle climate with the consequence of flash flooding which was also being seen. We can see the flash floods is based on nothing, now perhaps we can focus in on the evidence presented as the country is becoming wetter. The UK weather record is becoming wetter, as I have said all along. Will this lead to wetter and more Med type weather in England, possibly unless of course you look at the English weather which in isolation from Scotland has not increasing rainfall at all and has not increased during the industrial period. I think we can both agree that increased rain in Scotland is unlikely to make flooding in England worse and England becoming wetter and more like a Med climate is so far not evidenced on the historical record. I am quite prepared to consider evidence to the contrary but saying the last 30 years is wetter than the previous 30 years is not evidence of a trend most especially when the previous 30 years to that is noticeably wetter than the most recent 30 years. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 13, 2023 16:55:21 GMT
england and wales is not the uk , and not britian. you talk about british flood chronology , and now wish to cherry pick certain areas to suit your lame argument You yourself clamied , and i repeat once more in spite of your non stop wriggling , that the uk hadnt become wetter , apart from when you add scotland in.(over a three hundred year timescale. the metoffice is claiming england and wales is getting wetter over the last thirty years let it be said.)
So you concede above the uk is getting wetter , but cant supply the figures for scotland to back up your claim either way.
over to you sandy. No more wriggling.
However it was England specifically that was said to be becoming wetter and gaining a Med stryle climate with the consequence of flash flooding which was also being seen. Why did you post a chronology of british floods then if you want to talk about england only?stop wriggling sandy.
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Post by thomas on Aug 13, 2023 16:57:46 GMT
england and wales is not the uk , and not britian. you talk about british flood chronology , and now wish to cherry pick certain areas to suit your lame argument You yourself clamied , and i repeat once more in spite of your non stop wriggling , that the uk hadnt become wetter , apart from when you add scotland in.(over a three hundred year timescale. the metoffice is claiming england and wales is getting wetter over the last thirty years let it be said.)
So you concede above the uk is getting wetter , but cant supply the figures for scotland to back up your claim either way.
over to you sandy. No more wriggling.
The UK weather record is becoming wetter, as I have said all along. no you didnt. You implied the uk wasnt getting wetter , and wanted to leave scotland out, the top third of our island.
im waiting for you once again to prove your claim about scotland. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 13, 2023 17:00:37 GMT
england and wales is not the uk , and not britian. you talk about british flood chronology , and now wish to cherry pick certain areas to suit your lame argument You yourself clamied , and i repeat once more in spite of your non stop wriggling , that the uk hadnt become wetter , apart from when you add scotland in.(over a three hundred year timescale. the metoffice is claiming england and wales is getting wetter over the last thirty years let it be said.)
So you concede above the uk is getting wetter , but cant supply the figures for scotland to back up your claim either way.
over to you sandy. No more wriggling.
However it was England specifically that was said to be becoming wetter and gaining a Med stryle climate with the consequence of flash flooding which was also being seen. We can see the flash floods is based on nothing, now perhaps we can focus in on the evidence presented as the country is becoming wetter. The UK weather record is becoming wetter, as I have said all along. Will this lead to wetter and more Med type weather in England, possibly unless of course you look at the English weather which in isolation from Scotland has not increasing rainfall at all and has not increased during the industrial period. I think we can both agree that increased rain in Scotland is unlikely to make flooding in England worse and England becoming wetter and more like a Med climate is so far not evidenced on the historical record. I am quite prepared to consider evidence to the contrary but saying the last 30 years is wetter than the previous 30 years is not evidence of a trend most especially when the previous 30 years to that is noticeably wetter than the most recent 30 years. do you concede the trend in your own link shows the british island flooding more over the last 160 years compared to the previous 160 ? |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 13, 2023 17:12:32 GMT
Well once again we are in the realms of increased as in has happened and increasing which is happening. CO2 is rising and is according to the warmists leading to increasing flash floods (let us keep the terminology consistent) yet there is no trend of increasing. In fact since the 1930s the trend in flash floods is decreasing. I would hope you would concede a point when I am right and I would not hesitate to concede a point when you are right, so far you seem to wish to play as opposed to look at the figures both dispassionately and honestly. To be clear I am not saying anything as regards the climate other than in general terms of long term trends which do not back up the warmists statements that flash floods are increasing. no i wont .
Im simply pointing out to you your link once again says the oppisite to what you imply. 85 % of flood recordings over 320 year period , have happened in the last 160 years.
Thats quite a damning statistic sandy. you talked about a trend , and i just gave you one from your own link.
So let us assume for a moment you are right then all the increase in flash floods happened before CO2 emissions took off in the industrial period and before warming that is supposed to be the culprit took off. I am sure not even you believe what you have just written. Perhaps you enjoy the game. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 13, 2023 17:17:53 GMT
However it was England specifically that was said to be becoming wetter and gaining a Med stryle climate with the consequence of flash flooding which was also being seen. We can see the flash floods is based on nothing, now perhaps we can focus in on the evidence presented as the country is becoming wetter. The UK weather record is becoming wetter, as I have said all along. Will this lead to wetter and more Med type weather in England, possibly unless of course you look at the English weather which in isolation from Scotland has not increasing rainfall at all and has not increased during the industrial period. I think we can both agree that increased rain in Scotland is unlikely to make flooding in England worse and England becoming wetter and more like a Med climate is so far not evidenced on the historical record. I am quite prepared to consider evidence to the contrary but saying the last 30 years is wetter than the previous 30 years is not evidence of a trend most especially when the previous 30 years to that is noticeably wetter than the most recent 30 years. do you concede the trend in your own link shows the british island flooding more over the last 160 years compared to the previous 160 ? There is no trend, there is a dramatic increase, after that the trend is declining. Plot the graph and try to keep it serious which I hope you are not being with that rather facetious opinion, I hope it is not stupidity. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 13, 2023 17:39:14 GMT
The UK weather record is becoming wetter, as I have said all along. no you didnt. You implied the uk wasnt getting wetter , and wanted to leave scotland out, the top third of our island.
im waiting for you once again to prove your claim about scotland. I said the UK is becoming wetter according to the averages. The England and Wales averages do not show a trend and Zany said the wetter and warmer weather was causing flash floods to increase. You have Scottish figures that show a trend from the close of the 19th century. A quick perusal of the England and Wales trend from the 19th century shows no such increase |
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You showed me a link for england s weather going back three hundred years , but cant supply similar for scotland , which your whole bizarre argument hinges on . 
