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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 14:44:40 GMT
People still hellbent on defying the myths Brexit has failed. Deary me. They want us to go crawling back to the EU with cap in hand. The EU will oblige in humiliating these people. But questions need to be answered to persuade the people, rather than the last failed attempt of using fear. 1. How much would Britain have to pay for the EU's bloated budget? Currently, we're dodging an expensive bullet here. 2. What proportion of global trade will the EU represent for Britain in 20yrs time? Will it still be decreasing while Asia-Pacific grows? 3. What will be the annual net migration figures once Freedom of Movement is restored? And lower wages are brought back to these shores to the convenience of remainer business owners and to the detriment of the working class. 4. What would be the economic cost of joining the Eurozone? Which is currently in a recession while Britain is not. 5. Will the UK rejoin the Common Fisheries Policy? 6. As we already have a Free Trade Agreement with the EU, what precisely would be the advantage of rejoining its Single Market and Customs Union? 7. Will Brussels lawmakers have priority over the UK parliament and will the European Court of Justice be superior to British courts? 8. Would Rejoiners agree to the EU being in overall charge of foreign and security policy? 9. Will Rejoiners commit to a referendum to approve the terms negotiated for a new relationship with the EU? 10. What would be the effect on future trade of abandoning negotiations for closer relations with the Pacific region? Better start making some positive, persuasive arguments rather than resorting to calling people racist, knuckle draggers. You've got a hard task ahead of you to convince people. And I suspect by the time this has happened many people will have grown wiser to the nature of the EU beast; rather than the naivety of believing that it is the pinnacle of human civilisation. I see no ardent remainer who wants so-called 'honest debate' has even attempted to answer these fair and reasonable questions. It appears, the status quo of arguing for re-join looks like 'project fear'. This tactic didn't convince enough in 2016. So, perhaps some of our remainers on here can have a go and be honest enough to answer these questions? I honestly do not think they have the decency or intelligence to give you the answers you seek. It's literally just banner waving on here and repeating themselves whilst playing the oppressed victim. There are literally people on here who want to destroy the UK who are using the EU as a means to do that. TBH, it's such a boring campaign today that it has more in common with trolling than anything else. I mean, imagine telling people that their democratic decision is wrong and should be overridden by crybabies. It's enough to make a decent man's blood boil. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 14:51:31 GMT
Fair as in equal treatment, but at the end of the day the vocal Remainers openly rejected the result and will support anything to get us back in. This is why they're sucking up to Starmer in the hope that he will take us back through the backdoor. After all, Labour MPs literally insisted on Parliament rejecting the result straight after it came in. These are the sort of people who would support laws that made criticism of the EU a hate-crime.
Oh, what you call Brexiters are just ordinary people from all walks of life.
You have a terrible habit of answering for other people. And you don't even answer. BTW. Do you consider the term Brexiter to be an insult? I've never thought of it as such. Remainer is not an insult, Remoaner is. I am entitled to my opinion, and no where did I mention the world "insult". |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 25, 2023 14:57:21 GMT
You have a terrible habit of answering for other people. And you don't even answer. BTW. Do you consider the term Brexiter to be an insult? I've never thought of it as such. Remainer is not an insult, Remoaner is. I am entitled to my opinion, and no where did I mention the world "insult". And I'm entitled to mine, but I don't keep tacking it onto your responses to other people. Just wondered why you felt the need to point out that what I call Brexiters are just ordinary people. I have not claimed otherwise. They are just ordinary people who voted yes to Brexit. But Brexiter is easier to say. |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 25, 2023 15:00:36 GMT
Fair as in equal treatment, but at the end of the day the vocal Remainers openly rejected the result and will support anything to get us back in. This is why they're sucking up to Starmer in the hope that he will take us back through the backdoor. After all, Labour MPs literally insisted on Parliament rejecting the result straight after it came in. These are the sort of people who would support laws that made criticism of the EU a hate-crime.
Oh, what you call Brexiters are just ordinary people from all walks of life.
You have a terrible habit of answering for other people. And you don't even answer. BTW. Do you consider the term Brexiter to be an insult? I've never thought of it as such. Remainer is not an insult, Remoaner is. So what would you call stating that leavers didn't know what they were voting for or were just little old racist Englanders? Or trying to make out we were the uneducated ones. Since Brexit we can see who the real uneducated members are in our society and it certainly is not us who voted to leave. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 25, 2023 15:26:22 GMT
You have a terrible habit of answering for other people. And you don't even answer. BTW. Do you consider the term Brexiter to be an insult? I've never thought of it as such. Remainer is not an insult, Remoaner is. So what would you call stating that leavers didn't know what they were voting for or were just little old racist Englanders? Or trying to make out we were the uneducated ones. Since Brexit we can see who the real uneducated members are in our society and it certainly is not us who voted to leave. I would say the first is true. We should have negotiated the terms of departure before we asked the public to vote on it. The second I would say was a horrible insult and clearly wrong. As far as education goes I think there have been studies showing a link between education and voting which did show the better the education the higher likelihood of voting remain. Thing with education is its only measured by qualification, rather than experience. So I would tend to dismiss such claims. |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 25, 2023 15:32:44 GMT
So what would you call stating that leavers didn't know what they were voting for or were just little old racist Englanders? Or trying to make out we were the uneducated ones. Since Brexit we can see who the real uneducated members are in our society and it certainly is not us who voted to leave. We should have negotiated the terms of departure before we asked the public to vote on it. The second I would say was a horrible insult and clearly wrong. As far as education goes I think there have been studies showing a link between education and voting which did show the better the education the higher likelihood of voting remain. Thing with education is its only measured by qualification, rather than experience. So I would tend to dismiss such claims. And your qualifications on reaching that decision are what exactly? At least some of us are very happy to be living in our skins which is far more than many remainers can state. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 25, 2023 15:44:08 GMT
I would say the first is true. We should have negotiated the terms of departure before we asked the public to vote on it. The second I would say was a horrible insult and clearly wrong. As far as education goes I think there have been studies showing a link between education and voting which did show the better the education the higher likelihood of voting remain. Thing with education is its only measured by qualification, rather than experience. So I would tend to dismiss such claims. And your qualifications on reaching that decision are what exactly? At least some of us are very happy to be living in our skins which is far more than many remainers can state. I don't understand our question. Why do I need special qualifications to give you my opinion? The studies I refer to are freely available, take a look. I even stated that I don't support the studies conclusions. That we should have had a better idea what we would end up with if we voted is just common sense, I didn't even imply it would have changed the result. Post edited by Moderator
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Post by jonksy on Jun 25, 2023 15:48:56 GMT
And your qualifications on reaching that decision are what exactly? At least some of us are very happy to be living in our skins which is far more than many remainers can state. Why do I need special qualifications to give you my opinion? The studies I refer to are freely available, take a look. I even stated that I don't support the studies conclusions. That we should have had a better idea what we would end up with if we voted is just common sense, I didn't even imply it would have changed the result. See what I mean!.....
You are the one who always evades the truth and then accuse others of doing the same... Not a good look for someone who makes out they are highly educated which you do constantly.... Anyway I am busy at the mo watching paint dry...Toodle pip for now.. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 25, 2023 16:32:43 GMT
I don't understand our question. Why do I need special qualifications to give you my opinion? The studies I refer to are freely available, take a look. I even stated that I don't support the studies conclusions. That we should have had a better idea what we would end up with if we voted is just common sense, I didn't even imply it would have changed the result. I think you are so intent on being an arse that much of what is really said evades you. See what I mean!.....
You are the one who always evades the truth and then accuse others of doing the same... Not a good look for someone who makes out they are highly educated which you do constantly.... Anyway I am busy at the mo watching paint dry...Toodle pip for now.. No I don't see what you mean. So best leave it. |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 25, 2023 17:32:38 GMT
Oh, what you call Brexiters are just ordinary people from all walks of life.
Afraid not, anyone who supports a majority vote over a vocal minority is a far right nutjob, don't you know, as for Zany he is fast heading for being ignored. He is obviously out of his depth and just being nuisance for the sake of it.
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Post by zanygame on Jun 25, 2023 19:31:22 GMT
Oh, what you call Brexiters are just ordinary people from all walks of life. Afraid not, anyone who supports a majority vote over a vocal minority is a far right nutjob, don't you know, as for Zany he is fast heading for being ignored. He is obviously out of his depth and just being nuisance for the sake of it. Putting words in peoples mouths again. Do you have any original thoughts of your own. As for ignoring me, that is your right. Please feel free. |
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Post by bancroft on Jun 25, 2023 19:50:22 GMT
So what would you call stating that leavers didn't know what they were voting for or were just little old racist Englanders? Or trying to make out we were the uneducated ones. Since Brexit we can see who the real uneducated members are in our society and it certainly is not us who voted to leave. I would say the first is true. We should have negotiated the terms of departure before we asked the public to vote on it. The second I would say was a horrible insult and clearly wrong. As far as education goes I think there have been studies showing a link between education and voting which did show the better the education the higher likelihood of voting remain. Thing with education is its only measured by qualification, rather than experience. So I would tend to dismiss such claims. Didn't the students at Oxford university have a debate and came out in favour of leave? |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 25, 2023 20:58:19 GMT
I would say the first is true. We should have negotiated the terms of departure before we asked the public to vote on it. The second I would say was a horrible insult and clearly wrong. As far as education goes I think there have been studies showing a link between education and voting which did show the better the education the higher likelihood of voting remain. Thing with education is its only measured by qualification, rather than experience. So I would tend to dismiss such claims. Didn't the students at Oxford university have a debate and came out in favour of leave? Possibly, there is always exceptions that prove the rule. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 25, 2023 21:09:22 GMT
I'm sorry, but I always understood from Brexiters that it was unfair to make them wait 41 years for a referendum. Are you saying that you think that was fair? I'm talking about reciprocal fairness. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 25, 2023 22:22:26 GMT
I see no ardent remainer who wants so-called 'honest debate' has even attempted to answer these fair and reasonable questions. It appears, the status quo of arguing for re-join looks like 'project fear'. This tactic didn't convince enough in 2016. So, perhaps some of our remainers on here can have a go and be honest enough to answer these questions? I'll have a go. Though I do expect a respectful reply. 1, That should be negotiated BEFORE any vote. We do of course still have costs in dealing with the EU, regulations and checks are still carried out, we just pay separately for those at the moment. 2, I have no idea, but then being a member of the EU is not about access to East Asia. I assume we will still be able to trade with them? 3, Firstly, can it be worse than it is now? But in answer to your question FoM means FoM. So as much as happens. We could of course change our benefits and health system to make the UK less attractive. 4, Currently, but over the last 7 years has done better. So I think we will benefit. 5, To be negotiated, but I didn't think it was a big deal anyway. About 0.8% of our economy from memory. 6, Ease of trade. 7, Yes. 8, Don't know. 9, I would. Indeed I think the terms should be clear before the vote. 10, Very little, Its only worth 0.08% of our GDP. but I see no reason to abandon trade with them, we would just do it through the EU. I think you'll need to do better to persuade voters on this. 1. The UK was the second biggest contributor to the EU budget. As ever the EU's budget is exploding, so you'll need to give us a figure in the billions that would be acceptable. 2. When the UK joined the EU the EU represented 20% of global trade. Today it only represents 8% and is ever decreasing. Compared to high growth Asian economies it will be important to know what proportion of global trade will the EU represent for Britain in the future. Those hefty budgets, directives, and no SM for the financial system along with low growth will not be worth it especially if the global proportion of EU trade continues to decline. 3. I agree with your second sentence. The problem is, Brexit is turning around its service based economy from underpaid workers so we need to know and expect how much our wages will go back down. We also can't have more dodgy dossiers like Blairs predicting between 5,000 and 13,000 net annual immigration will take place. In 2023 we have 7.3 million EU nationals applying for settled status. So, numbers are important because they will impact on wages, infrastructure and services. 4. So, you'd tell the UK voters to give up Sterling because over the past seven years you believe the eurozone has performed well. A one cap fits all monetary policy that doesn't fit local economic conditions and a currency in which UK taxpayers will have to bail out insolvent banks across the continent. Good luck with that. 5. Negotiated in favour of the EU to take more of UK's sovereign waters no doubt and tell UK fisherman where they can and can't fish in their own waters, while allowing the French more access? 6. So, you expect the UK to give up its rights as a sovereign independent trading nation, to ensure (see below) that Parliament becomes a rubber stamping local council, give up the pound and everything that entails just for the 'ease of trade' with one region in the world. Okay, good luck with that. I think you're going to need more ammo in your arsenal of arguments to persuade people to vote to rejoin the EU. 7. Okay. You've admitted you're happy to see parliament to become a rubber stamping council and our courts playing second fiddle to the EU. 8. This may pop up in negotiations as the EU humiliates the UK during accession. So, it is important you give it some thought and then convince your fellow compatriots. 9. Okay. 10. I think the deal will yield a bigger boost to the UK than 0.08% but that's by the by. Joining a much larger and much faster bloc like the CPTPP is incompatible with EU membership. If we take all the aforementioned costs of EU budgets, directives, parliament becoming a rubber stamping authority, handing over our waters, adopting the Euro and having UK taxpayers bailing out insolvent banks in Italy and elsewhere, I can't see how any future government would roll back on the CPTPP partnership for all this. I don't think it would just be economic and political suicide, it could even cause civil unrest. As such, I think you need to work on your persuasiveness here of re-joining the EU it's certainly going to need polishing up a bit. In fairness to you, you haven't got any easy job of making EU membership look attractive. |
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