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Post by thomas on Jul 8, 2023 12:22:19 GMT
Irrelevant for the topic at hand. not if his acts, or news of them, reached those in power here. I noted srb’s comment earlier regarding hitler’s view of the uk and i agree he might have hoped appeasement and / or a neutral stance, such as i believe the irish republic had ? would save him a whole pile of trouble. The reality is those feelings were very much one way once Halifax and co had their wings clipped and the rest as they say is history. I’m sure a number of people hoped not to engage in combat with the German forces for many reasons. The grim reaper’s scythe had taken the best of the young men in the country twenty years earlier and memories were understandably still raw. But in the end it had to be. Eh?
Are you trying to imply john , that british intelligence , arguably then the greatest intelligence service in the world , had no knowledge of the unspeakable acts of evil that hitler and the nazi regime were perpetrating at the time? Tim bourveries , the author of appeasing hitler , had access to old war office records and much other classified documents , and states that the british government knew fine well what was happening under the nazis prior to the war , but were happy to turn a blind eye.
Possibly . Not sure though hitler saw the british as the greater danger. The british werent some angels intent in stopping the evils of the nazi regime. They themselves were seen across the world at the time as brutal oppressors in many countries who were fighting to hold onto their empire.
The german army chased the british out of europe in remakably quick time , and as we know , the 20 miles of channel sea and the british navy were all that saved the uk from the same fate as France and many other countries. The great question that will remain unanswered for eternity was why he let the british off the hook he had them on in 1940.
without a doubt. Scotland and serbia has suffered the greatest casualties as a percentage of population in the first world war . The collosul waste of life twenty years earlier must have been extremely raw in the memory of many nations as you say
.
Not so sure myself. The british clearly were more interested in maintaining their empire and appeasing hitler than opposing him. If they could have kept terms with him , and carried on some sort of a relationship that was mutualy beneficial , then there would have been no reason to go to war.
In the end , the power in the east of the USSR , and the power in the west of the americans proved too much for the germans.
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Post by thomas on Jul 8, 2023 12:24:48 GMT
We are talking about Hitler, a man who did unspeakably evil things to millions. Many individuals in history , including people in your country like oliver cromwell ,and many nations did unspeakable evil to millions.
Hitler was reputed to have copied the concentration camp from the british that they had used in the boer war in south africa.
He is merely one individual in a long line of individuals that were a blot on humanity.
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Post by Bentley on Jul 8, 2023 12:31:25 GMT
We are talking about Hitler, a man who did unspeakably evil things to millions. Many individuals in history , including people in your country like oliver cromwell ,and many nations did unspeakable evil to millions.
Hitler was reputed to have copied the concentration camp from the british that they had used in the boer war in south africa.
He is merely one individual in a long line of individuals that were a blot on humanity.
Did the British use the concentration camps for the purpose of genocide ? |
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Post by thomas on Jul 8, 2023 12:31:57 GMT
The interesting question here is: What if? What if Churchill had been deposed in May 1940 and the government had sued for peace? What would have happened if Hitler had been relieved the burden of a two-front war and was able to focus completely defeating the Soviet Union? not sure the germans had the capacity to defeat the soviet union myself. The put it into perspective , the british lost an estimated half million people during the years of conflict of the second world war. The soviets lost an estimated 27 million people , and still pushed the germans back and took half of europe.
The great fear in western europe and washington must have been the soviet union as the war was drawing to its close. I mind talking to an old yank on another forum who has been stationed as the fulda gap Facing a million soviet troops .The germans simply didnt have the manpower to defeat the soviet union.
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Post by thomas on Jul 8, 2023 12:34:37 GMT
Many individuals in history , including people in your country like oliver cromwell ,and many nations did unspeakable evil to millions.
Hitler was reputed to have copied the concentration camp from the british that they had used in the boer war in south africa.
He is merely one individual in a long line of individuals that were a blot on humanity.
Did the British use the concentration camps for the purpose of genocide ? Aye they did. Does it matter though? An act of evil is evil wether its genocide or anythng else.
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Post by Bentley on Jul 8, 2023 12:37:21 GMT
Did the British use the concentration camps for the purpose of genocide ? Aye they did. Does it matter though? An act of evil is evil wether its genocide or anythng else.
I don’t think that the idea was to kill or enslave everyone in the camps . That was the German ones . I think it matters a great deal . |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 8, 2023 12:39:23 GMT
not if his acts, or news of them, reached those in power here. I noted srb’s comment earlier regarding hitler’s view of the uk and i agree he might have hoped appeasement and / or a neutral stance, such as i believe the irish republic had ? would save him a whole pile of trouble. The reality is those feelings were very much one way once Halifax and co had their wings clipped and the rest as they say is history. I’m sure a number of people hoped not to engage in combat with the German forces for many reasons. The grim reaper’s scythe had taken the best of the young men in the country twenty years earlier and memories were understandably still raw. But in the end it had to be. Eh?
Are you trying to imply john , that british intelligence , arguably then the greatest intelligence service in the world , had no knowledge of the unspeakable acts of evil that hitler and the nazi regime were perpetrating at the time? Tim bourveries , the author of appeasing hitler , had access to old war office records and much other classified documents , and states that the british government knew fine well what was happening under the nazis prior to the war , but were happy to turn a blind eye.
Possibly . Not sure though hitler saw the british as the greater danger. The british werent some angels intent in stopping the evils of the nazi regime. They themselves were seen across the world at the time as brutal oppressors in many countries who were fighting to hold onto their empire.
The german army chased the british out of europe in remakably quick time , and as we know , the 20 miles of channel sea and the british navy were all that saved the uk from the same fate as France and many other countries. The great question that will remain unanswered for eternity was why he let the british off the hook he had them on in 1940.
without a doubt. Scotland and serbia has suffered the greatest casualties as a percentage of population in the first world war . The collosul waste of life twenty years earlier must have been extremely raw in the memory of many nations as you say
.
Not so sure myself. The british clearly were more interested in maintaining their empire and appeasing hitler than opposing him. If they could have kept terms with him , and carried on some sort of a relationship that was mutualy beneficial , then there would have been no reason to go to war.
In the end , the power in the east of the USSR , and the power in the west of the americans proved too much for the germans.
I really don’t understand how you came to any of the conclusions you did here thomas. I was thinking simply of the information and attitudes of the ‘average’ person at the time. As told to me in my childhood and adolescence by people who lived through it. As i said above, there was barely a town or village that did not have its menfolk slaughtered and / or maimed by the demand that they ‘do the patriotic thing’ twenty odd years earlier. Add to that the attitude of the likes of Halifax in the cabinet and the King at the time and we almost appeased the man to the point where Stalin’s utter stupidity handed hitler the victory he craved. Research the early part of Hitler’s offensive against Russia. Their air force destroyed in a week, maybe a fortnight. Their tanks blown to scrap metal as a result of the strategy they used … it astounds me how hitler managed to wrench defeat from tbe jas of victory, it really does. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jul 8, 2023 12:42:59 GMT
There is no evidence I'm aware of that confirms the Third Reich had any territorial ambitions beyond Europe. If you have some I'd like to see it. Well, since you base your assumptions on 'what ifs' about Churchill being deposed in 1940. It's fair for Bentley to speculate that Hitler would have taken to the seas, whether there is evidence to suggest that or not. What if Hitler had conquered Europe? Would a power hungry egomaniac down tools and be happy with his lot? I'm not sure, he seemed to admire the fact the the UK got a lot of its raw materials and resources from its colonial policies, and if he had a landmass the size of Europe that needed oiling, he would have eventually reasoned that he had the arsenal and might to take parts of, if not all of Britain's empire to oil his Nazi machine. I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that Hitler would have required extra resources, and raw materials from other parts of the world to feed a gigantic Nazi machine/economy. Plus, it would have made the lunatic feel like God. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 8, 2023 12:43:35 GMT
Aye they did. Does it matter though? An act of evil is evil wether its genocide or anythng else.
I don’t think that the idea was to kill or enslave everyone in the camps . That was the German ones . I think it matters a great deal . ah so in your message to the south africans , its sorry we deliberately killed 50 000 in the concentration camps , but at least it wasnt genocide?
LMFAO.
It was an unspeakable act of evil , just as decades earlier , the british attemtped genocide on the irish nation by deliberately starving half the popualtion of ireland to death , forcing many others to flee .
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Post by Bentley on Jul 8, 2023 12:45:31 GMT
I don’t think that the idea was to kill or enslave everyone in the camps . That was the German ones . I think it matters a great deal . ah so in your message to the south africans , its sorry we deliberately killed 50 000 in the concentration camps , but at least it wasnt genocide?
LMFAO.
It was an unspeakable act of evil , just as decades earlier , the british attemtped genocide on the irish nation by deliberately starving half the popualtion of ireland to death , forcing many others to flee .
I never sent a message . The Boer concentration camps are not comparable to the concentration death camps of WW2. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 8, 2023 12:45:39 GMT
There is no evidence I'm aware of that confirms the Third Reich had any territorial ambitions beyond Europe. If you have some I'd like to see it. What if Hitler had conquered Europe? Eh? He did conquer europe. With the exception of these islands , neutral states and allies , and in the east he had the soviet pushed right back to the boundaries of the east of europe.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 8, 2023 12:46:44 GMT
Many individuals in history , including people in your country like oliver cromwell ,and many nations did unspeakable evil to millions.
Hitler was reputed to have copied the concentration camp from the british that they had used in the boer war in south africa.
He is merely one individual in a long line of individuals that were a blot on humanity.
Did the British use the concentration camps for the purpose of genocide ? they certainly used them against the boer though. Dig hard enough and you find many claims that suggest the mortality rate for those interned in these camps was far higher than those in british slums at the time. Was this deliberate, or just a fact the british didn’t care about given they were up to their arse in killing boer guerilla fighters ? I don’t know. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 8, 2023 12:48:45 GMT
ah so in your message to the south africans , its sorry we deliberately killed 50 000 in the concentration camps , but at least it wasnt genocide?
LMFAO.
It was an unspeakable act of evil , just as decades earlier , the british attemtped genocide on the irish nation by deliberately starving half the popualtion of ireland to death , forcing many others to flee .
I never sent a message . The Boer concentration camps are not comparable to the concentration death camps of WW2. Wether its genocide or not is merely your interpretation. To me , wether killing 50 000 human beings or 5 million , we are merely arguing numbers , not the unspeakable evilness of the act.
The original point was that hitler had copied what the british did , and with german ingenuity took it to another level.
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Post by thomas on Jul 8, 2023 12:54:13 GMT
Eh?
Are you trying to imply john , that british intelligence , arguably then the greatest intelligence service in the world , had no knowledge of the unspeakable acts of evil that hitler and the nazi regime were perpetrating at the time? Tim bourveries , the author of appeasing hitler , had access to old war office records and much other classified documents , and states that the british government knew fine well what was happening under the nazis prior to the war , but were happy to turn a blind eye.
Possibly . Not sure though hitler saw the british as the greater danger. The british werent some angels intent in stopping the evils of the nazi regime. They themselves were seen across the world at the time as brutal oppressors in many countries who were fighting to hold onto their empire.
The german army chased the british out of europe in remakably quick time , and as we know , the 20 miles of channel sea and the british navy were all that saved the uk from the same fate as France and many other countries. The great question that will remain unanswered for eternity was why he let the british off the hook he had them on in 1940.
without a doubt. Scotland and serbia has suffered the greatest casualties as a percentage of population in the first world war . The collosul waste of life twenty years earlier must have been extremely raw in the memory of many nations as you say
.
Not so sure myself. The british clearly were more interested in maintaining their empire and appeasing hitler than opposing him. If they could have kept terms with him , and carried on some sort of a relationship that was mutualy beneficial , then there would have been no reason to go to war.
In the end , the power in the east of the USSR , and the power in the west of the americans proved too much for the germans.
I really don’t understand how you came to any of the conclusions you did here thomas. I was thinking simply of the information and attitudes of the ‘average’ person at the time. i came to many of the conclusions i did due to books i have read and information i have come across. The attitude of the average person differed in many countires and in short mattered not a jot to the political elite across europe and the world.
For example , the englishman hated the french , and saw a common bond with the german for historical reasons. The citizens of the british empire hated the british for their oppression , and possibly saw the geman rightly or wrongly as a liberator.
There was no standard thinking or average persons attitude at the time except possibly no one with an ounce of sense wanted to go to war .
The idea the second world war was some battle between good and evil as some imply on here is laughable.
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Post by Bentley on Jul 8, 2023 12:56:24 GMT
I never sent a message . The Boer concentration camps are not comparable to the concentration death camps of WW2. Wether its genocide or not is merely your interpretation. To me , wether killing 50 000 human beings or 5 million , we are merely arguing numbers , not the unspeakable evilness of the act.
The original point was that hitler had copied what the british did , and with german ingenuity took it to another level.
It’s not an interpretation. The concentration camps in the Boer war were not specifically death and/ or slave camps . The German concentration camps has a different purpose and some were pretty much death camps on an industrial scale . Comparing them to the boer concentration camps is risible . Hitler didn’t copy the British because the German camps were not used for the same purpose. Im sure that the Germans could of thought of a way to enclose thousand of people on their own. |
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