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Post by Vinny on Jul 5, 2023 11:03:34 GMT
We are talking about Hitler, a man who did unspeakably evil things to millions.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 5, 2023 11:12:02 GMT
Irrelevant for the topic at hand.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 5, 2023 11:24:02 GMT
I'll be the judge of that. I make my posts, not you.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 5, 2023 11:27:58 GMT
If you can't make a sensible contribution to the topic at hand, which is Hitler's relationship with and perception of the British Empire as an ally, then you should take your pearls of wisdom elsewhere.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 5, 2023 13:03:02 GMT
We were never allies. We tried diplomatically trying to avoid war. We tried appeasing him. He invaded Poland, we gave him an ultimatum, he ignored it, we declared war. We wouldn't have declared war against him had we been the allies he'd wanted us to be.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 5, 2023 13:20:45 GMT
How much did the average Brit even know ?
My grandparents and great uncles provide a confused account of many aspects of the politics of this time. How many knew of Edward the 8th’s favourable impression of the Germans ? How many knew of his relationship with Simpson ?
Grandad remembered Halifax’s stance on appeasement and Chamberlain’s second speech (i have to say i have received no such undertaking) was the precursor to grandad's IFF being tested when a hurricane on patrol forgot to switch ut on and came within yards of being a blue on blue. Yes they had electronics in war years before the history you’re told
But i still wonder how much people really knew and how much of what they heard they really believed. To her dying day grandma thought fighter command’s pilots saw better in the dark thanks to carrots even though her own daughter’s husband’s father was one of those pivotal to the wartime radar the ministry of food used a carrrot glut to cover up and exploit.
I guess what i’m saying here is it really did not matter what hitler might have thought about this country, from the moment he failed to act as he ‘promised’ chamberlain he would, his card was marked and his course set.
That it ended in a bunker in Berlin and not on a throne room in a grand palace is testimony to his utter idiocy as a war strategist and that’s something those less blonde blue eyed and outright Aryan in appearance than i need to get on their knees and give thanks for.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 5, 2023 17:11:24 GMT
Irrelevant for the topic at hand. not if his acts, or news of them, reached those in power here. I noted srb’s comment earlier regarding hitler’s view of the uk and i agree he might have hoped appeasement and / or a neutral stance, such as i believe the irish republic had ? would save him a whole pile of trouble. The reality is those feelings were very much one way once Halifax and co had their wings clipped and the rest as they say is history. I’m sure a number of people hoped not to engage in combat with the German forces for many reasons. The grim reaper’s scythe had taken the best of the young men in the country twenty years earlier and memories were understandably still raw. But in the end it had to be.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 8, 2023 8:54:30 GMT
The interesting question here is: What if?
What if Churchill had been deposed in May 1940 and the government had sued for peace? What would have happened if Hitler had been relieved the burden of a two-front war and was able to focus completely defeating the Soviet Union?
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Post by Bentley on Jul 8, 2023 9:13:26 GMT
The interesting question here is: What if? What if Churchill had been deposed in May 1940 and the government had sued for peace? What would have happened if Hitler had been relieved the burden of a two-front war and was able to focus completely defeating the Soviet Union? The US would have concentrated on Japan and kept out of Europe . Germany would have dominated Europe. Germany would have built up a navy to rival Britain’s .
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 8, 2023 9:43:56 GMT
There's little evidence to suggest that Germany ever aspired to build a proper 'blue water' navy. Hitler's empire would have been a land-based one. In the 'Second Book' he states that Wilhelm II's greatest blunder was to build such a navy to rival Britain's, and he had no intention of repeating it.
An interesting scenario would have been if the Wehrmacht, having pushed the Red Army beyond the Urals, then started to appear in numbers along the borders of Iran and Afghanistan. How would Britain have reacted?
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Post by Bentley on Jul 8, 2023 9:47:19 GMT
There's little evidence to suggest that Germany ever aspired to build a proper 'blue water' navy. Hitler's empire would have been a land-based one. In the 'Second Book' he states that Wilhelm II's greatest blunder was to build such a navy to rival Britain's, and he had no intention of repeating it. An interesting scenario would have been if the Wehrmacht, having pushed the Red Army beyond the Urals, then started to appear in numbers along the borders of Iran and Afghanistan. How would Britain have reacted? Had he achieve domination of Europe then he would of looked at taking what was left of the British empire . Wilhelm II never dominated Europe.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 8, 2023 9:54:48 GMT
In the early 1940s the British Empire was still completely intact. Even India's dominion status would probably never have been promised (as it was in 1942) since peace with Germany would have meant that the wartime exigencies that led to that promise in the first place simply would not have existed.
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Post by Bentley on Jul 8, 2023 10:02:53 GMT
In the early 1940s the British Empire was still completely intact. Even India's dominion status would probably never have been promised (as it was in 1942) since peace with Germany meant that the wartime exigencies that led to that promise in the first place simply would not have existed. Doesn’t matter . A Germany that dominated Europe would be looking at taking British Empire resources . Sooner or later that would have needed a large navy . British might have allowed them to commandeer it or use the a Royal Navy in Germanys interests . Either way Germany wouid need a large navy to be a true world power.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jul 8, 2023 10:17:27 GMT
There is no evidence I'm aware of that confirms the Third Reich had any territorial ambitions beyond Europe.
If you have some I'd like to see it.
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Post by Bentley on Jul 8, 2023 11:52:09 GMT
There is no evidence I'm aware of that confirms the Third Reich had any territorial ambitions beyond Europe. If you have some I'd like to see it. If you seriously believe that Hitler wouid have stopped at France to Russia and allowed a small Island next door to France to have an empire then good for you . The fact is that any relations between Germany and Britain that is not factual will be speculative. Germany would have taken territory in Africa too . They were already there .
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