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Post by Handyman on Jun 6, 2023 13:14:44 GMT
That's what panic does. In fairness, had the gov. not locked down and hundreds of thousands more deaths had occured; could you imagine the backlash a Tory government would have got for putting the economy before the people. They (gov) were already accused of deaths of those in aged care homes etc. It would have been political suicide to throw caution to the wind. Remember the furore created when it was suggested Boris & co. were considering the idea of 'herd immunity', he had to U-turn on that pretty swiftly. but the criticism regarding care homes was fully justified. Hancock allowed the infected to return to care homes to cull the inmates. Do Not Resuscitate notices were served by GPs….. I disagree what we do know now is that Covid arrived in the UK in later 2019 it was already spreading , Hancock quite rightly told the NHS was to free up as many NHS Beds as possible we already had a shortage of Beds within the NHS long before Covid arrived , very early in 2020 we had no Covid Test Kits anyway. All patients of any age that were fit enough to be safely discharged were discharged either to their own homes or family members that could care for them , that decision was made by NHS Doctors working in NHS Hospitals if any of their patients were suspected of being infected by the virus no Doctor IMHO would have discharged them into a Care Home or back to their own home, Hancock did not make those decisions. My aged Mother was fit enough to be discharged but could not be sent home as my Dad was no longer fit enough to look after her, he was ill himself , the Hospital Welfare Department placed her in a Care Home , where she has remained since early 2020, if she had any symptoms of Covid she would not have been discharged from Hospital. The Care Home she is still in did not have any Resident infected with Covid until late 2022, two cases both Residents survived it. As for do not Resuscitate Forms I have had to sign two of them in the last two years , one for my Dad who passed away 2 years ago complications after an op and old age, and one for my Mother who is still with us, GP's cannot sign them , GP's during Covid did contact their vulnerable high risk patients who were not in Hospital some were sent the Form to consider if they wanted to sign them or not and make a decision if able, not easy to do. If in a Hospital the Doctor can discuss it with the Patient if they able to understand and make a rational decision, if not it is for their close relatives if they have one to make that decision on their behalf, if the family say no do not Resuscitate, it means their relative will receive palliative care if their condition worsens , to keep them pain free and as comfortable as possible let nature take its course. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 6, 2023 13:17:23 GMT
LOL! You just trolled yourself there. 🤣 No, I just made my point and showed 3 examples of people ignoring medical experts for political gain. Two of whom were booted out of office at the next opportunity showing it was not a successful political strategy in the end anyway. No, you just ignored facts to make a political non-point - exactly as you accused others of doing. And now you're adopting the increasingly common lefty trait of repeating the same proven untruths on an endless loop as if they'll somehow come true through repetition. |
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Post by Orac on Jun 6, 2023 13:43:25 GMT
OTOH, if we view it as a test run for 1984 style social control then it was far more effective. Fortunately, increasing numbers of people can see right through it. So maybe we're not doomed after all. As if by magic my point about people ignoring experts for political gain is proved within minutes. You mean like that time the US president speculated that the Virus may have a man made origin and the Lancet engaged in a low level scientific fraud in an attempt to show he was wrong? |
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Post by patman post on Jun 6, 2023 13:50:53 GMT
As if by magic my point about people ignoring experts for political gain is proved within minutes. You mean like that time the US president speculated that the Virus may have a man made origin and the Lancet engaged in a low level scientific fraud in an attempt to show he was wrong? The Lancet has a lot to answer for. It's publication of Wakefield's MMR-autism claims, without careful examination and stringent peer review, should have caused them more than a few minutes embarrassment... |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 6, 2023 13:54:57 GMT
If we regard Covid 19 as a test run for a far more deadly pandemic we failed. People refused to social distance, wear masks or even get vaccinated. We are doomed. Let me tell you, it will be every man for himself, if and when such a occasion arises, you don't think people will stick to rules and regulations if they are in fear for their lives, if you announced a Russian nuclear missile was heading to the UK do you honestly think anything the government or WHO put in place will really matter, I think the next pandemic people will just take their chances. I can guarantee you'll be on a dinghy claiming asylum in France... |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 6, 2023 14:06:24 GMT
Let me tell you, it will be every man for himself, if and when such a occasion arises, you don't think people will stick to rules and regulations if they are in fear for their lives, if you announced a Russian nuclear missile was heading to the UK do you honestly think anything the government or WHO put in place will really matter, I think the next pandemic people will just take their chances. I can guarantee you'll be on a dinghy claiming asylum in France... You better believe it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2023 14:19:52 GMT
Yes it certainly was project fear, I could understand a 2 month lock-down initially and once seen that the death rate was low should just have re-opened everything. Just to remind everyone... It was 3 WEEKS to flatten the curve. This was extended because it had not worked, and ended up being 7 weeks to flatten the curve. 23rd March to May 10th 2020 then still heavy restrictions until July 4th. Then it was so successful we had: November 5th to December 2nd 4 weeks January 5th to 29th March 2021 9 weeks So then we were up to 20 weeks with Starmer asking for more. Remember that! Just to be clear, there were plenty of voices telling the government about the damage this was doing, but they did not want to listen and actively stifled all debate. |
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Post by Handyman on Jun 6, 2023 14:28:15 GMT
I agree doing nothing was not an option the Government took the advice of the Medical experts and even they could not agree on it, should we go for the herd principle or lockdown ? it is easy to be wise after something has happened not before Without doubt the world will face another epidemic of some sort in the years to come, will whoever has to make the right decisions or not who knows , we may all be glowing in the dark if Putin hits the Nuclear button , will he make the right or wrong decision Some of this was understandable confusion and doubt, but much of it was naked political opportunism. It became clear to me by about may-june, that we were being relentlessly funneled into bad choices. The PM and Government like most of us knew absolutely nothing and about dealing with a Virus such as Covid, they had to make decisions on what the Medical Experts told them, the world has seen nothing like this since the Flu Epidemic 1918 which killed many millions of people, we will probably know very little about the next one as when and if it arrives. |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 6, 2023 15:33:50 GMT
But it was what Parliament voted for on your behalf, pretty much unanimously. When people say Covid ruined the economy, they are 100% wrong. It was the massive government over-reaction which ruined the economy, just at the point we needed to ignore the virus. Boris was right The collateral damage is much worse than the lockdown benefits. Excess deaths are still running high because lockdown did not: Protect the NHS or save lives in the long run. Who could possibly have predicted this?  The excess deaths from breaking the NHS, ambulance service, and cancer treatments have far outweighed any lives saved. So the anti-lockdown rebels are vindicated, Sheepy. We should be proud. Even though it is a tragedy created by idiots. I don't think they were idiots, they used psychology against a public who didn't have a clue what was going on and did exactly as was planned for them. The fear factor won hands down. . |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 6, 2023 15:41:34 GMT
Let me tell you, it will be every man for himself, if and when such a occasion arises, you don't think people will stick to rules and regulations if they are in fear for their lives, if you announced a Russian nuclear missile was heading to the UK do you honestly think anything the government or WHO put in place will really matter, I think the next pandemic people will just take their chances. I can guarantee you'll be on a dinghy claiming asylum in France... I can guarantee I won't. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 6, 2023 17:11:51 GMT
Yes it certainly was project fear, I could understand a 2 month lock-down initially and once seen that the death rate was low should just have re-opened everything. Just to remind everyone... It was 3 WEEKS to flatten the curve. This was extended because it had not worked, and ended up being 7 weeks to flatten the curve. 23rd March to May 10th 2020 then still heavy restrictions until July 4th. Then it was so successful we had: November 5th to December 2nd 4 weeks January 5th to 29th March 2021 9 weeks So then we were up to 20 weeks with Starmer asking for more. Remember that! Just to be clear, there were plenty of voices telling the government about the damage this was doing, but they did not want to listen and actively stifled all debate.This ^^^^^ |
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Post by bancroft on Jun 6, 2023 17:34:04 GMT
Just to remind everyone... It was 3 WEEKS to flatten the curve. This was extended because it had not worked, and ended up being 7 weeks to flatten the curve. 23rd March to May 10th 2020 then still heavy restrictions until July 4th. Then it was so successful we had: November 5th to December 2nd 4 weeks January 5th to 29th March 2021 9 weeks So then we were up to 20 weeks with Starmer asking for more. Remember that! Just to be clear, there were plenty of voices telling the government about the damage this was doing, but they did not want to listen and actively stifled all debate.This ^^^^^ Starmer is Labour, Labour like institutions and science under institutional control. Now forget the curve the hype we got suugested this was Black Death MKII it clearly wasn't, once that had been established it should have been opening up everything with protective measures just for specific at risk categories like care homes. Hardly anyone goes to the hospital about a virus it was mainly scaremongering and after 2 months they knew that yet had given power over to the vaccine makers and scientists who took the most pessimistic view and showed they knew nothing about the history of disease and it become herd mentality with all of them backing each other up so no-one was looked different. I recall the former head of Israeli health who said this was madness, 'You cannot stop a virus, it mutates' he went on and said don't use Northern Italy as an example due to the geography they always have bad flu outbreaks there, it was nothing knew. He was then blacklisted. |
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Post by Handyman on Jun 6, 2023 18:40:29 GMT
Covid has mutated people are still being hospitalized and it is still killing about 30 people a week,
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Post by bancroft on Jun 6, 2023 19:05:57 GMT
Covid has mutated people are still being hospitalized and it is still killing about 30 people a week, Or is it reactions to earlier vaccinations, guess we will never know. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2023 19:27:35 GMT
Covid has mutated people are still being hospitalized and it is still killing about 30 people a week, It's negligible when 10,000 people die each week in England. Deaths are about 3.4% above the average. It's time we stopped focussing on the 30 and started focussing on the 322 excess deaths each week |
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