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Post by patman post on Jun 7, 2023 17:21:28 GMT
I just really don't understand the link between this thread and the Covid Enquiry one. The same people saying that "lockdown was pointless" (thread title) are the same people arguing against the Covid Enquiry saying there's nothing to learn. All that joined up thinking... Only in your perception, Andrew. I have not argued against a Covid enquiry. I am saying that lockdown was pointless (after the first 3 weeks failed) and that Boris was right about herd immunity and if he said "Let the bodies pile high", so what, they never would have piled high as the data says less than 2,000 lives saved. The undertakers coped so well. There were no carts in the streets "bring out your dead!" and there was no run on the Nightingale hospitals. In the NHS it was a bit of a non-event. I remember at the hospital, I couldn't use the lift, as a double bagged body was being moved from a ward to the mortuary. Within 2 weeks, no-one cared, because they knew. But while they didn’t know, they took extra care. And we still don’t know if that extra care was actually unnecessary. I admit I am not trained in medicine — though I have a Mum who has worked herself up to a senior nursing position — and I take note of what she says about the outbreak, and I saw how it almost broke her during its run, and now I listen to what she has learned since 2020. As a family of me, the Mrs and kids, we did all we were advised to do — from Hands/Face/Space to following the lockdown guidance, and vaccinations. As far as I am aware I am the only one to have tested positive. Were any of the recommendations unnecessary and over the top? Who knows? But I’m always a better safe than sorry guy. So apart from the lateness in recognising the pandemic, and the mistakes over clearing beds by shipping care patients into care homes accounting for thousands of deaths, the other reactions may have safeguarded millions. Until the whole event is competently reviewed, we won’t know. I condemn Boris for his cavalier attitude at the outset, which made the resulting outbreak in the UK worse than it need to have been, and his inability to grasp what was happening. But I believe the eventual actions contained in the panic measures, worked and kept casualties down… |
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Post by patman post on Jun 7, 2023 17:22:43 GMT
I just really don't understand the link between this thread and the Covid Enquiry one. The same people saying that "lockdown was pointless" (thread title) are the same people arguing against the Covid Enquiry saying there's nothing to learn. All that joined up thinking... Only in your perception, Andrew. I have not argued against a Covid enquiry. I am saying that lockdown was pointless (after the first 3 weeks failed) and that Boris was right about herd immunity and if he said "Let the bodies pile high", so what, they never would have piled high as the data says less than 2,000 lives saved. The undertakers coped so well. There were no carts in the streets "bring out your dead!" and there was no run on the Nightingale hospitals. In the NHS it was a bit of a non-event. I remember at the hospital, I couldn't use the lift, as a double bagged body was being moved from a ward to the mortuary. Within 2 weeks, no-one cared, because they knew. But while they didn’t know, they took extra care. And we still don’t know if that extra care was actually unnecessary. I admit I am not trained in medicine — though I have a Mum who has worked herself up to a senior nursing position — and I take note of what she says about the outbreak, and I saw how it almost broke her during its run, and now I listen to what she has learned since 2020. As a family of me, the Mrs and kids, we did all we were advised to do — from Hands/Face/Space to following the lockdown guidance, and vaccinations. As far as I am aware I am the only one to have tested positive. Were any of the recommendations unnecessary and over the top? Who knows? But I’m always a better safe than sorry guy. So apart from the lateness in recognising the pandemic, and the mistakes over clearing beds by shipping care patients into care homes accounting for thousands of deaths, the other reactions may have safeguarded millions. Until the whole event is competently reviewed, we won’t know. I condemn Boris for his cavalier attitude at the outset, which made the resulting outbreak in the UK worse than it need to have been, and his inability to grasp what was happening. But I believe the eventual actions contained in the panic measures, worked and kept casualties down… |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 7, 2023 17:23:35 GMT
I don't read bullshit. At the time Britain was attacking China instead of dealing with the problem and China was saying, surely you should stop wasting time trying to blame us and do something to save your own people, but the attacks kept on coming. Don't talk bollox as usual, the Chinese knew about it before Chinese new year and let the Chinese spread it anyway. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 7, 2023 17:25:53 GMT
If we already know that lockdowns had a 'negligible impact' on Covid mortality what are you expecting to learn? We already know that 'Test and Trace' was a waste of money and that 'Eat out to help out' was a waste of money so does wasting another £100 million telling you what you already know achieve? We did learn one thing from Covid, it made a hell of a lot of people wealthy, including the furlough fraudsters, no checks, just fill in the forms and BINGO. Totally agree with you there, whether that gets covered by the enquiry, I hope so but I'm not sure. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 7, 2023 17:28:43 GMT
We did learn one thing from Covid, it made a hell of a lot of people wealthy, including the furlough fraudsters, no checks, just fill in the forms and BINGO. Totally agree with you there, whether that gets covered by the enquiry, I hope so but I'm not sure. I doubt they will ever catch the furlough fraudsters, and those who made a fortune with Covid contracts probably covered their tracks, but in the unlikely event any one was found and is charged with such offenses I hope they throw the book at them, profiteering out of peoples pain and suffering has to be as low as you can stoop. |
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Post by patman post on Jun 7, 2023 17:30:31 GMT
I don't read bullshit. At the time Britain was attacking China instead of dealing with the problem and China was saying, surely you should stop wasting time trying to blame us and do something to save your own people, but the attacks kept on coming. Don't talk bollox as usual, the Chinese knew about it before Chinese new year and let the Chinese spread it anyway. And the swamping of Italian hospitals was being reported by UK tv news way before the pandemic hit the UK… |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 7, 2023 17:48:57 GMT
Totally agree with you there, whether that gets covered by the enquiry, I hope so but I'm not sure. I doubt they will ever catch the furlough fraudsters, and those who made a fortune with Covid contracts probably covered their tracks, but in the unlikely event any one was found and is charged with such offenses I hope they throw the book at them, profiteering out of peoples pain and suffering has to be as low as you can stoop. Oh, they won't get the fraudsters. The question for me is why the treasury didn't want to try and recover. Get overpaid on WTC and HMRC goes down on you like a ton of bricks, but Covid fraud... To follow on from that, as you know I work in benefits. Last year the DWP started looking at the benefits from 2020 again. In 2020 the DWP adopted "Trust and Protect", which basically meant paying out on less evidence then checking it later. Now overpayment letters are going out to those who had too much. But HMT never did the same either with the furlough monies, or with the Covid contracts. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 7, 2023 17:58:34 GMT
I doubt they will ever catch the furlough fraudsters, and those who made a fortune with Covid contracts probably covered their tracks, but in the unlikely event any one was found and is charged with such offenses I hope they throw the book at them, profiteering out of peoples pain and suffering has to be as low as you can stoop. Oh, they won't get the fraudsters. The question for me is why the treasury didn't want to try and recover. Get overpaid on WTC and HMRC goes down on you like a ton of bricks, but Covid fraud... To follow on from that, as you know I work in benefits. Last year the DWP started looking at the benefits from 2020 again. In 2020 the DWP adopted "Trust and Protect", which basically meant paying out on less evidence then checking it later. Now overpayment letters are going out to those who had too much. But HMT never did the same either with the furlough monies, or with the Covid contracts. Here's some of the nonsense they are coming out with..
HMRC is now stepping up its enforcement activity, aiming to recover misappropriated funds by issuing penalties and pursuing prosecution or director disqualifications for businesses that claimed furlough while telling – or allowing – employees to keep working.
In total, according to the latest report into the schemes by the National Audit Office, £4.5 billion – or nearly 4.6 per cent of the total cost of the government’s £96.9 billion emergency Covid-19 support – was claimed in error or in fraud.
But even that estimate is subject to “considerable uncertainty”, auditors say, with the figures ranging from between £3.2 billion to £6.3 billion.
The government insisted compliance checks minimised fraud from the start, and said that no fraud was being written off, with work going on to identify those who abused the system.
** estimate, in other words they haven't got the foggiest how much fraud went on, and I can bet you it was a hell of a lot more than the 'estimated' £4.5 billion.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 7, 2023 18:24:17 GMT
Yep. They gave more than that to their dodgy mates.
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 7, 2023 21:22:11 GMT
It's really amazing. We have post upon post every day highlighting how Government departments fuck up and are useless - and every day we have posters claiming that our lives would be better off with more areas of the economy run by Government departments..
...Hmm
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 7, 2023 23:33:48 GMT
They're called epidemiologists and they are the best equipped to suggest policy for infectious diseases. Well they should have suggested not to allow care home patients in and out of hospitals, it was one of the main reasons it spread, so are you saying that wasn't the fault of the government? it was the epidemiologists who got it wrong? As I understand it from recent reports, the academics were not informed of policy changes to come. They were not consulted. I understand this is hard to swallow, but that's what they say. It's clear the cock-ups were the government. The government also appointed some really stupid people to run critical parts of the operation. Listen to Dominic Cummings. He's telling the truth. We just got stitched up 100% by the Johnson government. I think they aught to be in prison for criminal negligence. They killed people. |
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Post by bancroft on Jun 9, 2023 18:13:46 GMT
But while they didn’t know, they took extra care. And we still don’t know if that extra care was actually unnecessary. I admit I am not trained in medicine — though I have a Mum who has worked herself up to a senior nursing position — and I take note of what she says about the outbreak, and I saw how it almost broke her during its run, and now I listen to what she has learned since 2020. As a family of me, the Mrs and kids, we did all we were advised to do — from Hands/Face/Space to following the lockdown guidance, and vaccinations. As far as I am aware I am the only one to have tested positive.
Were any of the recommendations unnecessary and over the top? Who knows? But I’m always a better safe than sorry guy. So apart from the lateness in recognising the pandemic, and the mistakes over clearing beds by shipping care patients into care homes accounting for thousands of deaths, the other reactions may have safeguarded millions. Until the whole event is competently reviewed, we won’t know. I condemn Boris for his cavalier attitude at the outset, which made the resulting outbreak in the UK worse than it need to have been, and his inability to grasp what was happening. But I believe the eventual actions contained in the panic measures, worked and kept casualties down… When you tested positive did you feel ill? When you had the vaccine and felt rough did you get tested? |
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Post by patman post on Jun 9, 2023 18:20:45 GMT
But while they didn’t know, they took extra care. And we still don’t know if that extra care was actually unnecessary. I admit I am not trained in medicine — though I have a Mum who has worked herself up to a senior nursing position — and I take note of what she says about the outbreak, and I saw how it almost broke her during its run, and now I listen to what she has learned since 2020. As a family of me, the Mrs and kids, we did all we were advised to do — from Hands/Face/Space to following the lockdown guidance, and vaccinations. As far as I am aware I am the only one to have tested positive.
Were any of the recommendations unnecessary and over the top? Who knows? But I’m always a better safe than sorry guy. So apart from the lateness in recognising the pandemic, and the mistakes over clearing beds by shipping care patients into care homes accounting for thousands of deaths, the other reactions may have safeguarded millions. Until the whole event is competently reviewed, we won’t know. I condemn Boris for his cavalier attitude at the outset, which made the resulting outbreak in the UK worse than it need to have been, and his inability to grasp what was happening. But I believe the eventual actions contained in the panic measures, worked and kept casualties down… When you tested positive did you feel ill? When you had the vaccine and felt rough did you get tested? I didn’t feel I’ll. I had a hospital appointment for an unrelated reason and the hospital tested me. I remember feeling sweaty while waiting for the specialist and got a call on the way home telling me I’d tested positive and to isolate for five days. I didn’t feel I’ll, but I tested myself a couple of times and on day five I was clear. The only effects I felt from all six jab was a temporary sore arm… |
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