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Post by dappy on May 25, 2023 6:16:08 GMT
2010 - 2015
Coalition
Term 5 years
Prime ministers - 1
Elections - 1
2015 - 2023
Majority
Term 8 years
Prime ministers - 5
Elections - 3
Strong and stable?
Next
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Post by andrewbrown on May 25, 2023 6:39:55 GMT
(Slight correction, they didn't actually have a majority from 2017 - 2019, but ran with a confidence and supply agreement with the DUP. I take your point though.)
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Post by Pacifico on May 25, 2023 6:49:05 GMT
So we have had 13 years of the Tories in Government - with no conservative policies implemented.. Must be a record..  |
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Post by Toreador on May 25, 2023 6:53:22 GMT
So we have had 13 years of the Tories in Government - with no conservative policies implemented.. Must be a record.. We've had far longer than that with crap PMs, crap MPs and crap policies. |
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Post by Orac on May 25, 2023 7:30:59 GMT
What is interesting is that these people didn't seem to be solely (or even mostly) animated by a dislike of Corbyn in particular - (which is not the same thing as saying they didn't dislike him). However, you are probably technically correct that it was a factor of some size. Probably I’ll be pilloried, but I think Corbyn is probably a decent human being who still clings to decades out of date immature opinions formed in his student days. Although way out of his competence quotient as Labour leader, his befuddled demeanour and side-kick shadow chancellor, McDonnell, got him plenty of support in his first election. He’s probably now out of the scene, whereas Johnson might be back… I don't think much of his politics, but I do think his failure to get power is ironically setting up a very dangerous situation for the UK. He was significantly old skool left, definitely not in 'the club' and getting rid of him would have exposed the true nature of how the UK has been governed since Blair to many people with left wing sympathies. I think, if Corbyn had got into power, the country would now be in a healing / review process rather than inching towards a confrontational cataclysm (as it is now) |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 9:11:51 GMT
With 12.6% of the vote they would have 80+ MPs under Proportional Representation. Anti-democrats would say that would be wrong. I say it would be absolutely fair. No Ned, PR is a recipe for disaster and once PR is adopted there will be no going back. PR will bring nothing but coalition governments probably three way coalitions my god can you imagine it? How the hell will a three way coalition get anything done? How can a coalition possibly represent the majority of the electorate? The reason the LibDems are a political nonentity is because they entered into a coalition in 2010. PR and endless coalitions will see the death of strong majority governments and we will become just like an EU state all of which use some form of PR, which the EU firmly approves of. That should be warning enough. I could not agree less. Coalition governments are more likely to represent the majority of the electorate by producing moderate policies which please more of the electorate than a single party, surely? You speak about a coalition government as a bad thing, but the Conservative / Libdem government lasted 5 years without failing. The Libdems sold out, true, but it was Jo Swinson and her crazy "I will be PM and take us back into the EU" which got them kicked into touch. Now the Libdems have Ed Davey, a more experienced politician, they have regained that ground in the polls. If you want an example of a strong majority government, look at Boris's 80 seat majority. If you think that's good you must have rose tinted specs on. The argument that because the EU have PR it's a bad thing is rather silly. We had PR in the European elections and the Brexit Party won with 29 seats. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 9:13:42 GMT
You didn’t answer which current Tory MP would lead your new party. No, I don't intend to. |
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Post by see2 on May 25, 2023 9:22:59 GMT
So we have had 13 years of the Tories in Government - with no conservative policies implemented.. Must be a record.. We've had far longer than that with crap PMs, crap MPs and crap policies. 1951 to 1964 Tories had plenty of crap policies, laying down the crap that culminated in the election of Thatcher, the worst PM in modern times. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 9:25:38 GMT
So we have had 13 years of the Tories in Government - with no conservative policies implemented.. Must be a record.. We've had far longer than that with crap PMs, crap MPs and crap policies. We have indeed had 44 years of Thatcherism in one guise or another. |
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Post by Orac on May 25, 2023 9:33:05 GMT
No Ned, PR is a recipe for disaster and once PR is adopted there will be no going back. PR will bring nothing but coalition governments probably three way coalitions my god can you imagine it? How the hell will a three way coalition get anything done? How can a coalition possibly represent the majority of the electorate? The reason the LibDems are a political nonentity is because they entered into a coalition in 2010. PR and endless coalitions will see the death of strong majority governments and we will become just like an EU state all of which use some form of PR, which the EU firmly approves of. That should be warning enough. I could not agree less. Coalition governments are more likely to represent the majority of the electorate by producing moderate policies which please more of the electorate than a single party, surely? This is a bad argument imho. Imagine a team of hikers lost in the woods, some of the team think they should travel north, some think they should travel south. A coalition of the two groups is built and they decide that a fair compromise between the two views is to stand still or go east. The reality is a lot worse than even that - a government entirely made of compromises between groups can't be held properly accountable and is therefore very hard to change |
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Post by see2 on May 25, 2023 9:34:00 GMT
No Ned, PR is a recipe for disaster and once PR is adopted there will be no going back. PR will bring nothing but coalition governments probably three way coalitions my god can you imagine it? How the hell will a three way coalition get anything done? How can a coalition possibly represent the majority of the electorate? The reason the LibDems are a political nonentity is because they entered into a coalition in 2010. PR and endless coalitions will see the death of strong majority governments and we will become just like an EU state all of which use some form of PR, which the EU firmly approves of. That should be warning enough. I could not agree less. Coalition governments are more likely to represent the majority of the electorate by producing moderate policies which please more of the electorate than a single party, surely? You speak about a coalition government as a bad thing, but the Conservative / Libdem government lasted 5 years without failing. The Libdems sold out, true, but it was Jo Swinson and her crazy "I will be PM and take us back into the EU" which got them kicked into touch. Now the Libdems have Ed Davey, a more experienced politician, they have regained that ground in the polls. If you want an example of a strong majority government, look at Boris's 80 seat majority. If you think that's good you must have rose tinted specs on. The argument that because the EU have PR it's a bad thing is rather silly. We had PR in the European elections and the Brexit Party won with 29 seats. It seems that many people missed the obvious that New Labour was the closest thing to PR that this country has ever seen, outside of world wars. Their "For the Many, Not the Few" approach literally was in many ways spread right across our capitalist country. I'm not claiming anything like perfection, they did nevertheless make moves in the right direction. |
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Post by Dan Dare on May 25, 2023 9:43:14 GMT
So we have had 13 years of the Tories in Government - with no conservative policies implemented.. Must be a record.. An eerie sense of deja vu...
Sixty years ago Harold Wislon successfully fought a general election on the slogan 'We need to end 13 years of Tory misrule'
What was it Marx said about history repeating itself?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 9:43:30 GMT
I could not agree less. Coalition governments are more likely to represent the majority of the electorate by producing moderate policies which please more of the electorate than a single party, surely? This is a bad argument imho. Imagine a team of hikers lost in the woods, some of the team think they should travel north, some think they should travel south. A coalition of the two groups is built and they decide that a fair compromise between the two views is to stand still or go east. The reality is a lot worse than even that - a government entirely made of compromises between groups can't be held properly accountable and is therefore very hard to change It isn't a fair comparison, Mags, as politics is far more complex and nuanced than "shall we go left or right?". It may be a decision on the amount of spending, areas of government assistance, industry to support with investment. More of a shall we have yellow or blue and ending up with green as a compromise. |
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Post by Toreador on May 25, 2023 9:57:26 GMT
You didn’t answer which current Tory MP would lead your new party. No, I don't intend to. Good man, Dappy is using the forum as a means of learning politics.  |
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Post by dappy on May 25, 2023 10:45:06 GMT
You didn’t answer which current Tory MP would lead your new party. No, I don't intend to. That's your right of course but it's a little odd. You seemed to make a big thing about Tory MPs possibly joining (and by interpretation leading) your emerging populist party but now don't want to name who you have in mind to lead it (either currently a Tory or currently a leader of one of the myriad of small populist parties. May I ask why you are so reluctant? Is it because you can't think of anyone. Oddly Dan seemed to be similarly reticent - "cometh the hour cometh the man" he says yet he goes very quiet when asked who the man (or even as a last resort woman) might be. |
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