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Post by sandypine on Apr 15, 2023 17:50:30 GMT
Ahhh, at last. Well done. Quote from your link... ... In comments following the Rochdale grooming scandal involving nine Muslim men, the Conservative Party co-chairman admitted that race was a factor. She urged Muslim leaders to address the issue and ensure that men who regard white women as 'third class citizens' are isolated by their communities.
Nine Muslim men, mainly of Pakistani origin, were found guilty last week of plying girls as young as 13 with drink and drugs so they could 'pass them around' and use them for sex.
She now calls Braverman a racist? Perhaps she hopes people have forgotten what she said a few years ago. I don’t see what Warsi said a few years ago was either wrong or negates what she has also said recently. At the time of the former statement, much of the public was appalled at the revelations about the grooming gangs. Since then, it’s become apparent that child grooming and sex abuse isn’t confined solely or primarily confined to groups demonised BNP/Britain First/EDL. What I find distasteful is Braverman, herself a woman of colour, trying to advance her standing among the racist elements in her party and the wider Right-leaning electorate by using her barrister skills to concentrate on and blame one group of child abusers and intentionally ignoring the greater and wider problems of child sex abuse… Is that not the actual issue though. The wider problem of sexual abuse is dealt with at one level of variable efficient investigation and the Muslim grooming gangs have been dealt with in a different, and seemingly more lenient to the point of ignoring them, way. It is the fact that it has been poorly dealt with over all the years that raises it as an issue now. She is not intentionally ignoring other sexual abuse she is intentionally dealing with one that has escaped the net so to speak and trying to find out exactly what is going on. It is what people have been asking for for years. If it all turns out to be a storm in a teacup and the level of Pakistani men involved is no greater than any others then the perception that they are worse can be laid to rest. The other perception that persists is that on the left they will use any tactic to stop such a detailed investigation and this encourages suspicion that the left know there is a problem and will move heaven and earth to not have it exposed. All of this can be cleared up with a proper accounting which is all she seems to be demanding. Seems reasonable to me. |
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Post by Steve on Apr 15, 2023 20:58:34 GMT
No one is trying to stop a proper investigation, the concern is 2nd rate politicians and public figures risking horrendous prejudicial acts against innocent people and maybe even lynch mobs by their self serving gutter level tactics trying to get power they in no way deserve.
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Post by steppenwolf on Apr 16, 2023 6:38:02 GMT
Ahhh, at last. Well done. Quote from your link... ... In comments following the Rochdale grooming scandal involving nine Muslim men, the Conservative Party co-chairman admitted that race was a factor. She urged Muslim leaders to address the issue and ensure that men who regard white women as 'third class citizens' are isolated by their communities.
Nine Muslim men, mainly of Pakistani origin, were found guilty last week of plying girls as young as 13 with drink and drugs so they could 'pass them around' and use them for sex.
She now calls Braverman a racist? Perhaps she hopes people have forgotten what she said a few years ago. I don’t see what Warsi said a few years ago was either wrong or negates what she has also said recently. At the time of the former statement, much of the public was appalled at the revelations about the grooming gangs. Since then, it’s become apparent that child grooming and sex abuse isn’t confined solely or primarily confined to groups demonised BNP/Britain First/EDL. What I find distasteful is Braverman, herself a woman of colour, trying to advance her standing among the racist elements in her party and the wider Right-leaning electorate by using her barrister skills to concentrate on and blame one group of child abusers and intentionally ignoring the greater and wider problems of child sex abuse… Have you actually read anything about this subject at all PP? For example the Jay Report on Rotherham says that 1400 young white girls were raped and abused by over 300 men in Rotherham of overwhelmingly Pakistani descent. Considering that the muslim population of Rotherham is about 10,000 that indicates a very large proportion child sexual abuse among the muslim community, don't you think?. Or are you one of these Lefties who just object on principle to breaking crime down by the ethnicity of the perpetrators? There's certainly no doubt who the main perpetrators are - they're muslims and they're committing the crimes on an industrial scale and the police have largely ignored it. And it's still going on now. One of the girls who was the subject of a BBC radio 4 program "Enquiry" said that virtually whenever she goes out she's followed by Asians in cars. But the problem is that people like you (and most of our politicians) are in denial. Some years ago the government commissioned a "public education film" warning people of the dangers of getting into cars with strangers. The firm who made the film set up a scene where two Asians in a car picked up a young white girl - which is an accurate reflection of what's gong on. But the govt rejected it because the Asians would object. So they reshot the film with two white men in a car picking up a black girl - which is nonsense. That's how much the govt is in denial. Remember - for evil to flourish all that has to happen is for good people to say nothing. Braverman should be given a lot of credit for actually telling the truth. |
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Post by patman post on Apr 16, 2023 9:05:02 GMT
I don’t see what Warsi said a few years ago was either wrong or negates what she has also said recently. At the time of the former statement, much of the public was appalled at the revelations about the grooming gangs. Since then, it’s become apparent that child grooming and sex abuse isn’t confined solely or primarily confined to groups demonised BNP/Britain First/EDL. What I find distasteful is Braverman, herself a woman of colour, trying to advance her standing among the racist elements in her party and the wider Right-leaning electorate by using her barrister skills to concentrate on and blame one group of child abusers and intentionally ignoring the greater and wider problems of child sex abuse… Is that not the actual issue though. The wider problem of sexual abuse is dealt with at one level of variable efficient investigation and the Muslim grooming gangs have been dealt with in a different, and seemingly more lenient to the point of ignoring them, way. It is the fact that it has been poorly dealt with over all the years that raises it as an issue now. She is not intentionally ignoring other sexual abuse she is intentionally dealing with one that has escaped the net so to speak and trying to find out exactly what is going on. It is what people have been asking for for years. If it all turns out to be a storm in a teacup and the level of Pakistani men involved is no greater than any others then the perception that they are worse can be laid to rest. The other perception that persists is that on the left they will use any tactic to stop such a detailed investigation and this encourages suspicion that the left know there is a problem and will move heaven and earth to not have it exposed. All of this can be cleared up with a proper accounting which is all she seems to be demanding. Seems reasonable to me. As I see it — as I think the way Baroness Warsi sees it — Braverman's using serious issues in attempts to ingratiate herself with particular factions is the issue...
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Post by patman post on Apr 16, 2023 9:17:58 GMT
I don’t see what Warsi said a few years ago was either wrong or negates what she has also said recently. At the time of the former statement, much of the public was appalled at the revelations about the grooming gangs. Since then, it’s become apparent that child grooming and sex abuse isn’t confined solely or primarily confined to groups demonised BNP/Britain First/EDL. What I find distasteful is Braverman, herself a woman of colour, trying to advance her standing among the racist elements in her party and the wider Right-leaning electorate by using her barrister skills to concentrate on and blame one group of child abusers and intentionally ignoring the greater and wider problems of child sex abuse… Have you actually read anything about this subject at all PP? For example the Jay Report on Rotherham says that 1400 young white girls were raped and abused by over 300 men in Rotherham of overwhelmingly Pakistani descent. Considering that the muslim population of Rotherham is about 10,000 that indicates a very large proportion child sexual abuse among the muslim community, don't you think?. Or are you one of these Lefties who just object on principle to breaking crime down by the ethnicity of the perpetrators? There's certainly no doubt who the main perpetrators are - they're muslims and they're committing the crimes on an industrial scale and the police have largely ignored it. And it's still going on now. One of the girls who was the subject of a BBC radio 4 program "Enquiry" said that virtually whenever she goes out she's followed by Asians in cars. But the problem is that people like you (and most of our politicians) are in denial. Some years ago the government commissioned a "public education film" warning people of the dangers of getting into cars with strangers. The firm who made the film set up a scene where two Asians in a car picked up a young white girl - which is an accurate reflection of what's gong on. But the govt rejected it because the Asians would object. So they reshot the film with two white men in a car picking up a black girl - which is nonsense. That's how much the govt is in denial. Remember - for evil to flourish all that has to happen is for good people to say nothing. Braverman should be given a lot of credit for actually telling the truth. In this case, for evil to flourish is for EDL type factions to ignore the total picture by concentrating on one facet that agrees with their own prejudices and to regurgitate only those reports supporting their claims.
Braverman is a politician who's got sucked in to believing that voicing EDL type views with ingratiate her with her party and certain of its supporters... |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 16, 2023 9:32:21 GMT
Is that not the actual issue though. The wider problem of sexual abuse is dealt with at one level of variable efficient investigation and the Muslim grooming gangs have been dealt with in a different, and seemingly more lenient to the point of ignoring them, way. It is the fact that it has been poorly dealt with over all the years that raises it as an issue now. She is not intentionally ignoring other sexual abuse she is intentionally dealing with one that has escaped the net so to speak and trying to find out exactly what is going on. It is what people have been asking for for years. If it all turns out to be a storm in a teacup and the level of Pakistani men involved is no greater than any others then the perception that they are worse can be laid to rest. The other perception that persists is that on the left they will use any tactic to stop such a detailed investigation and this encourages suspicion that the left know there is a problem and will move heaven and earth to not have it exposed. All of this can be cleared up with a proper accounting which is all she seems to be demanding. Seems reasonable to me. As I see it — as I think the way Baroness Warsi sees it — Braverman's using serious issues in attempts to ingratiate herself with particular factions is the issue...
What particular factions do you mean? The likes of the BNP and the EDL have been highlighting this for years, the Sikhs have also been highlighting it for years with a slant to their own community. Just because many find the messengers unacceptable does not mean the message is wrong. Of course the other messengers are the victims themselves, some police and social workers, some politicians and some in the political world. These are part of 'the factions' that are highlighting the perceived problem. I am sure political considerations are always in the forefront of any act or utterance by a politician but that also applies to Warsi. What the electorate deserve is a definitive finding out process that has been largely blocked for 20 years mainly due to the shouts of racism and Islamophobia. Warsi is merely perpetuating that ignoble tradition. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 16, 2023 9:34:30 GMT
Have you actually read anything about this subject at all PP? For example the Jay Report on Rotherham says that 1400 young white girls were raped and abused by over 300 men in Rotherham of overwhelmingly Pakistani descent. Considering that the muslim population of Rotherham is about 10,000 that indicates a very large proportion child sexual abuse among the muslim community, don't you think?. Or are you one of these Lefties who just object on principle to breaking crime down by the ethnicity of the perpetrators? There's certainly no doubt who the main perpetrators are - they're muslims and they're committing the crimes on an industrial scale and the police have largely ignored it. And it's still going on now. One of the girls who was the subject of a BBC radio 4 program "Enquiry" said that virtually whenever she goes out she's followed by Asians in cars. But the problem is that people like you (and most of our politicians) are in denial. Some years ago the government commissioned a "public education film" warning people of the dangers of getting into cars with strangers. The firm who made the film set up a scene where two Asians in a car picked up a young white girl - which is an accurate reflection of what's gong on. But the govt rejected it because the Asians would object. So they reshot the film with two white men in a car picking up a black girl - which is nonsense. That's how much the govt is in denial. Remember - for evil to flourish all that has to happen is for good people to say nothing. Braverman should be given a lot of credit for actually telling the truth. In this case, for evil to flourish is for EDL type factions to ignore the total picture by concentrating on one facet that agrees with their own prejudices and to regurgitate only those reports supporting their claims.
Braverman is a politician who's got sucked in to believing that voicing EDL type views with ingratiate her with her party and certain of its supporters... So some victims, some parents, some police, some social workers and some politicians are EDL types? |
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Post by patman post on Apr 16, 2023 10:10:52 GMT
As I see it — as I think the way Baroness Warsi sees it — Braverman's using serious issues in attempts to ingratiate herself with particular factions is the issue...
What particular factions do you mean? The likes of the BNP and the EDL have been highlighting this for years, the Sikhs have also been highlighting it for years with a slant to their own community. Just because many find the messengers unacceptable does not mean the message is wrong. Of course the other messengers are the victims themselves, some police and social workers, some politicians and some in the political world. These are part of 'the factions' that are highlighting the perceived problem. I am sure political considerations are always in the forefront of any act or utterance by a politician but that also applies to Warsi. What the electorate deserve is a definitive finding out process that has been largely blocked for 20 years mainly due to the shouts of racism and Islamophobia. Warsi is merely perpetuating that ignoble tradition. It's because some refuse to accept the true situation of child abuse in this country that the whole situation is mostly publicly diverted down the one corridor of grooming by Pakistani gangs with only occasional acknowledgements of Rochdale's own Cyril Smith, Jimmy Savile, Rolf Harris, etc.
I see Warsi wanting the whole scene of child sexual abuse in the United Kingdom to be publicly recognised and nothing covered up by focusing only on one aspect. I agree with her comments on Braverman...
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Post by patman post on Apr 16, 2023 10:16:29 GMT
In this case, for evil to flourish is for EDL type factions to ignore the total picture by concentrating on one facet that agrees with their own prejudices and to regurgitate only those reports supporting their claims.
Braverman is a politician who's got sucked in to believing that voicing EDL type views with ingratiate her with her party and certain of its supporters... So some victims, some parents, some police, some social workers and some politicians are EDL types? Maybe some of that list — but those who only peddle stories that support their views are likely in that camp, whatever their reasons... |
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Post by steppenwolf on Apr 16, 2023 12:42:36 GMT
What particular factions do you mean? The likes of the BNP and the EDL have been highlighting this for years, the Sikhs have also been highlighting it for years with a slant to their own community. Just because many find the messengers unacceptable does not mean the message is wrong. Of course the other messengers are the victims themselves, some police and social workers, some politicians and some in the political world. These are part of 'the factions' that are highlighting the perceived problem. I am sure political considerations are always in the forefront of any act or utterance by a politician but that also applies to Warsi. What the electorate deserve is a definitive finding out process that has been largely blocked for 20 years mainly due to the shouts of racism and Islamophobia. Warsi is merely perpetuating that ignoble tradition. It's because some refuse to accept the true situation of child abuse in this country that the whole situation is mostly publicly diverted down the one corridor of grooming by Pakistani gangs with only occasional acknowledgements of Rochdale's own Cyril Smith, Jimmy Savile, Rolf Harris, etc.
I see Warsi wanting the whole scene of child sexual abuse in the United Kingdom to be publicly recognised and nothing covered up by focusing only on one aspect. I agree with her comments on Braverman...
There are a few examples of well known people who have managed to avoid justice because of the connections they have - Jimmy Savile being the most obvious one. Savile was well known for his paedophilia - he even wrote about it in his autobiography, but the police and BBC ignored it. But he's very much the exception in the case of white sex offenders. But fame can also work the other way. For example Cliff Richard was hung out to dry by the police for offences that were never substantiated - and the police spent vast amounts of money attempting to prosecute various well known people (Harvey Proctor, Lord Bramall, Edward Heath, Leon Brittan etc - all people who are/were of a political persuasion that doesn't go down well with the police upper echelons) on the evidence of "Nick" who was an obvious liar. Yet when they had first hand evidence from a large number of girls about sexual abuse on vast scale by Asians they did absolutely nothing - they even threw the evidence away and didn't even record the crime. There were thousands of girls involved in this abuse but only a handful of the rapists were ever prosecuted. And they got derisory sentences. I'll ask again, have you ever read anything about the muslim gangs scandal which is still happening across the country? I don't think you have because the facts are appalling. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 16, 2023 14:10:31 GMT
No one is trying to stop a proper investigation, the concern is 2nd rate politicians and public figures risking horrendous prejudicial acts against innocent people and maybe even lynch mobs by their self serving gutter level tactics trying to get power they in no way deserve. Prejudicial acts against innocent people are commonplace in the name of expose. The BNP member's list which resulted in several beatings and many careers stopped. It is often noticed that exposing 'innocent' people depends very much on who is being exposed and who is doing the exposing. As far as I can see what is being sought is definitive information as regards what is going on, unless of course you are saying there is no problem within a certain community and it is all a load of hogwash. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2023 14:13:45 GMT
Have you actually read anything about this subject at all PP? For example the Jay Report on Rotherham says that 1400 young white girls were raped and abused by over 300 men in Rotherham of overwhelmingly Pakistani descent. Considering that the muslim population of Rotherham is about 10,000 that indicates a very large proportion child sexual abuse among the muslim community, don't you think?. Or are you one of these Lefties who just object on principle to breaking crime down by the ethnicity of the perpetrators? There's certainly no doubt who the main perpetrators are - they're muslims and they're committing the crimes on an industrial scale and the police have largely ignored it. And it's still going on now. One of the girls who was the subject of a BBC radio 4 program "Enquiry" said that virtually whenever she goes out she's followed by Asians in cars. But the problem is that people like you (and most of our politicians) are in denial. Some years ago the government commissioned a "public education film" warning people of the dangers of getting into cars with strangers. The firm who made the film set up a scene where two Asians in a car picked up a young white girl - which is an accurate reflection of what's gong on. But the govt rejected it because the Asians would object. So they reshot the film with two white men in a car picking up a black girl - which is nonsense. That's how much the govt is in denial. Remember - for evil to flourish all that has to happen is for good people to say nothing. Braverman should be given a lot of credit for actually telling the truth. In this case, for evil to flourish is for EDL type factions to ignore the total picture by concentrating on one facet that agrees with their own prejudices and to regurgitate only those reports supporting their claims.
Braverman is a politician who's got sucked in to believing that voicing EDL type views with ingratiate her with her party and certain of its supporters... EDL types? I find it all odd really, an American police officer does something bad in the USA and BLM smash up half of London, but if people protest against what's happening in their own country they're violently attacked by the far-left and smeared for being mostly white. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 16, 2023 14:19:59 GMT
What particular factions do you mean? The likes of the BNP and the EDL have been highlighting this for years, the Sikhs have also been highlighting it for years with a slant to their own community. Just because many find the messengers unacceptable does not mean the message is wrong. Of course the other messengers are the victims themselves, some police and social workers, some politicians and some in the political world. These are part of 'the factions' that are highlighting the perceived problem. I am sure political considerations are always in the forefront of any act or utterance by a politician but that also applies to Warsi. What the electorate deserve is a definitive finding out process that has been largely blocked for 20 years mainly due to the shouts of racism and Islamophobia. Warsi is merely perpetuating that ignoble tradition. It's because some refuse to accept the true situation of child abuse in this country that the whole situation is mostly publicly diverted down the one corridor of grooming by Pakistani gangs with only occasional acknowledgements of Rochdale's own Cyril Smith, Jimmy Savile, Rolf Harris, etc.
I see Warsi wanting the whole scene of child sexual abuse in the United Kingdom to be publicly recognised and nothing covered up by focusing only on one aspect. I agree with her comments on Braverman...
The true situation of child abuse in this country is very much a subjective issue and a means to divert from a specific instance where child abuse is perceived to be rife and where there is an ethno-religious aspect that places it head and shoulders above all other child abuse, unless of course you are saying that racial and religious discrimination as regards victim choice is not important. That is not the official position. If this was white gangs abusing vulnerable black girls then we would never hear the end of it, there would be several Macpherson type inquiries detailing the insidious nature of those who carried out the crimes and what influences in their culture allowed the belief that the girls were lesser beings available for their base proclivities. But it isn't so the left wing defence mechanisms come straight into play and the Islamic community start to close ranks. We have seen it all before. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 16, 2023 14:24:55 GMT
So some victims, some parents, some police, some social workers and some politicians are EDL types? Maybe some of that list — but those who only peddle stories that support their views are likely in that camp, whatever their reasons... Many camps have unpleasant people in them, what we do is evaluate the facts and not who provides the facts. There is no camp that denies the truth, there are camps who wish the truth to be hidden and that is generally now perceived to be the left and the Islamic community. If there is no problem then detailed information will show there is no problem, why would people not wish that to happen? |
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Post by Dogburger on Apr 16, 2023 16:32:39 GMT
Maybe some of that list — but those who only peddle stories that support their views are likely in that camp, whatever their reasons... Many camps have unpleasant people in them, what we do is evaluate the facts and not who provides the facts. There is no camp that denies the truth, there are camps who wish the truth to be hidden and that is generally now perceived to be the left and the Islamic community. If there is no problem then detailed information will show there is no problem, why would people not wish that to happen? You can add the Catholic Church to that list |
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