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Post by Vinny on Mar 22, 2023 9:46:55 GMT
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Post by thescotsman on Mar 22, 2023 10:59:20 GMT
I suppose by accepting that the police force and police officers are not and never will be perfect....progress not perfection. |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 22, 2023 11:15:48 GMT
Yep, true, but when actual rapists are serving officers it doesn't do them any good at all.
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Post by thescotsman on Mar 22, 2023 11:37:34 GMT
Yep, true, but when actual rapists are serving officers it doesn't do them any good at all. sure I agree and you get rid of them...prosecute and jail them. I understand the need to hold police officers to a higher standard as they are empowered with a significant authority provided to them by society as a whole... so...I realise I'm treading on dangerous ground now....but if the desire is to undermine the authority of the police force by concentrating on officers at the fringes of the bell curve then the conversation becomes skewed and thus predicated upon the remaining (vast majority of) police officers being tainted by association and calling into question their ability to carry out the function that society has asked them to do. So, do we then have to discuss an alternative to a police force and what that will be....a morality patrol....vigilantes?  I don't know....am I barking up the wrong tree? I mean...shit....our culture nowadays is that we seem to have assigned ourselves the role of victims and that we have no agency and at the mercy of forces beyond our control so seem to be looking to redesign institutions to pander to that metric...if people are so shocked that police officers reflect society as a whole then maybe society is the issue.. Who the fuck knows.... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 11:41:40 GMT
Yep, true, but when actual rapists are serving officers it doesn't do them any good at all. Unless we replace them all with robots then these bad apples will always pop up, as is the case in every police force throughout the world. The country is going through an anti-police phase so the spotlight is heavily on them, but you will probably find it's no worse than other countries. If anything it's better since most governments would want this dealt with internally without the prying eyes.
All I know for sure is that any proposition by the establishment will involve further politicisation, more diversity and more ways to insult everyone's intelligence, until the "problem" is even worse. Coppers all have background checks for both themselves and their family before even being accepted for training. What more can be done?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 12:06:05 GMT
I'm sorry to say that the Police have always had corrupt and badly behaved officers.
One of the first court cases I went to was a local criminal being prosecuted for a so-called bald tyre. The officer in the case said that one edge of the tyre was bald and had noted the serial number of the tyre in his statement. The local petty criminal pled not guilty and the tyre was produced in court. The serial number matched the officer's notes, but the description of the bald area did not.
In fact, the tyre was still legal and it was clear the officer was either mistaken, or more likely lying to try to get local petty criminal fined or banned for defective tyres. The case was dismissed, but had the guy pled guilty it would have been a miscarriage of justice. No action was taken against the lying PC.
I could tell you of meeting a DC driving a CID car at 1am on an industrial estate who almost fell out of the car, could not stand up or speak properly because of drink. Someone else had to drive his car back to the station. No action was taken and he stayed in CID.
I could tell you a sergeant reported a PC who he caught red handed stealing food from a court building. He told the PC to put the food back or be reported, he chose to eat it and be reported.
When the superintendent heard about this, the sergeant was blamed for "causing trouble". The PC was "disciplined" with a warning.
I could tell you of a prisoner being hung out of a police station window by his ankles to get him to confess to a crime he had allegedly committed.
During this period, new recruits were usually stamped on the backside with the official station rubber stamp as an initiation ceremony. This was one of the more polite schemes in force at the time.
I could also tell you about superb police work done which saved lives, improved others and kept dross off the streets.
Now that the police are more diverse, with the passing of 4 decades, has it got any better? I think not.
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Post by borchester on Mar 22, 2023 14:44:25 GMT
I'm sorry to say that the Police have always had corrupt and badly behaved officers. One of the first court cases I went to was a local criminal being prosecuted for a so-called bald tyre. The officer in the case said that one edge of the tyre was bald and had noted the serial number of the tyre in his statement. The local petty criminal pled not guilty and the tyre was produced in court. The serial number matched the officer's notes, but the description of the bald area did not. In fact, the tyre was still legal and it was clear the officer was either mistaken, or more likely lying to try to get local petty criminal fined or banned for defective tyres. The case was dismissed, but had the guy pled guilty it would have been a miscarriage of justice. No action was taken against the lying PC. I could tell you of meeting a DC driving a CID car at 1am on an industrial estate who almost fell out of the car, could not stand up or speak properly because of drink. Someone else had to drive his car back to the station. No action was taken and he stayed in CID. I could tell you a sergeant reported a PC who he caught red handed stealing food from a court building. He told the PC to put the food back or be reported, he chose to eat it and be reported. When the superintendent heard about this, the sergeant was blamed for "causing trouble". The PC was "disciplined" with a warning. I could tell you of a prisoner being hung out of a police station window by his ankles to get him to confess to a crime he had allegedly committed. During this period, new recruits were usually stamped on the backside with the official station rubber stamp as an initiation ceremony. This was one of the more polite schemes in force at the time. I could also tell you about superb police work done which saved lives, improved others and kept dross off the streets. Now that the police are more diverse, with the passing of 4 decades, has it got any better? I think not. I can tell stories of falling down police station steps etc and fit ups because if the accused did not do it, he probably would have and was about due anyway.
I can also tell a story of a policeman confronting an armed villain with the words, put that gun down you silly looking bastard before I come over there and shove it so far up your arse that it will come out of your ear.
Overall I would rather have the police than not.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 22, 2023 15:29:57 GMT
Yep, true, but when actual rapists are serving officers it doesn't do them any good at all. sure I agree and you get rid of them...prosecute and jail them. I understand the need to hold police officers to a higher standard as they are empowered with a significant authority provided to them by society as a whole... so...I realise I'm treading on dangerous ground now....but if the desire is to undermine the authority of the police force by concentrating on officers at the fringes of the bell curve then the conversation becomes skewed and thus predicated upon the remaining (vast majority of) police officers being tainted by association and calling into question their ability to carry out the function that society has asked them to do. So, do we then have to discuss an alternative to a police force and what that will be....a morality patrol....vigilantes? I don't know....am I barking up the wrong tree? I mean...shit....our culture nowadays is that we seem to have assigned ourselves the role of victims and that we have no agency and at the mercy of forces beyond our control so seem to be looking to redesign institutions to pander to that metric...if people are so shocked that police officers reflect society as a whole then maybe society is the issue.. Who the fuck knows.... The left usually do not like Bell Curves, they contain too much information they wish to be suppressed. They prefer 'institutional' that blames no one and everyone all at the same time. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 18:21:57 GMT
The left usually do not like Bell Curves, they contain too much information they wish to be suppressed. They prefer 'institutional' that blames no one and everyone all at the same time. Which is absolutely unfair and demoralising to the many excellent officers who are doing their best under difficult circumstances. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Mar 22, 2023 21:20:08 GMT
I understand the need to hold police officers to a higher standard as they are empowered with a significant authority provided to them by society as a whole... so...I realise I'm treading on dangerous ground now....but if the desire is to undermine the authority of the police force by concentrating on officers at the fringes of the bell curve then the conversation becomes skewed and thus predicated upon the remaining (vast majority of) police officers being tainted by association and calling into question their ability to carry out the function that society has asked them to do. So, do we then have to discuss an alternative to a police force and what that will be....a morality patrol....vigilantes? I don't know....am I barking up the wrong tree? I mean...shit....our culture nowadays is that we seem to have assigned ourselves the role of victims and that we have no agency and at the mercy of forces beyond our control so seem to be looking to redesign institutions to pander to that metric...if people are so shocked that police officers reflect society as a whole then maybe society is the issue.. Who the fuck knows.... Is, I suspect, the right answer. Society gets the policing it deserves. |
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Mar 22, 2023 21:28:29 GMT
I knew a woman who told me that her ex-husband was a Commander in the MET. I checked out the name she gave me and found that he was indeed a Commander ... involved in some sort of co-operation between British and Dutch police. She claimed that he was extremely controlling and "kept her on vallium".
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Post by zanygame on Mar 22, 2023 22:29:46 GMT
I suppose by accepting that the police force and police officers are not and never will be perfect....progress not perfection. I know, rape, misogamy, racism, violence, torture, beatings, murder. But heck no ones perfect. |
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Post by thescotsman on Mar 23, 2023 8:47:15 GMT
I suppose by accepting that the police force and police officers are not and never will be perfect....progress not perfection. I know, rape, misogamy, racism, violence, torture, beatings, murder. But heck no ones perfect. Correct. |
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Post by Orac on Mar 23, 2023 9:20:19 GMT
I suppose by accepting that the police force and police officers are not and never will be perfect....progress not perfection. I know, rape, misogamy, racism, violence, torture, beatings, murder. But heck no ones perfect. Do you remember the Sesame Street game? Two of these things are not like others. Give it a go |
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Post by thescotsman on Mar 23, 2023 12:23:44 GMT
I know, rape, misogamy, racism, violence, torture, beatings, murder. But heck no ones perfect. Do you remember the Sesame Street game? Two of these things are not like others. Give it a go....would you permit a maddly and massively off-topic comment? |
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