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Post by thomas on Feb 23, 2023 7:35:17 GMT
Nice attempt to dodge , but they are all linked. If the NIP is that bad economically why do the majority support it in northern ireland , including 21 % of unionists who are telling the whingers in the DUP to get on with the day job and forget the protocol? By every measurement and investigation , its mutually agreed that the NIP is helping northern ireland perform economically above its long term bottom of the barrell historical performance as the armpit of the uk economy. Even unionists dont argue against that fact. Their argument is that it cuts northern ireland off from the rest of the uk . Is that your argument for the NIP Brexshit is that bad you need northern ireland to be perfomring terribly economically like the rest of the uk so you can demand an end to the protocol not becuase you give a shit about the northern irish , but to save face for the brexiters? What a terrible indictment of the brexit movement if so. Brexits days are numbered in my opinion. Theres only so much weasal words , and lame excuses the uk public are going to accept.
LOL - you seem to read a lot more into my posts than what is actually there. All I was doing was correcting the false impression given that the access to the Single Market given by the Protocol had made NI the fastest growing region in the UK - when nothing could be further from the truth. Personally I'd love NI to perform better economically as it would lessen the financial burden placed on the rest of the UK. Perhaps if it had Scotlands unrestricted access to the UK single market?
Not sure where i have said northern ireland is the fastest growing region of the yookay. Articles are suggesting from the liks i posted it is "outperforming " other uk regions. I have also said access to the single market is helping it nudge itself off its historical place at the bottom of the uk league in terms of economic performance.
Scotland has access to the ptifull uk market , and restricted from the eu single market , and our economy is worse now ( as of course is the rest) than what it was prior to brexit.
Are you suggesting the uk including norn ireland needs access to both the uk and the far bigger eu single markets? Perish the thought. That appears to me to be suggesting we overturn brexit . 
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Post by thomas on Feb 23, 2023 7:39:57 GMT
I dont think i do overstate westminsters role in running scotland economy. Almost all of its key economic levers – taxation, welfare, immigration and many more – are directly controlled by Westminster, as is roughly half of “Scottish” spending.
Your parliament has had three hundred years to get scotland into shape economically , and now you have failed spectacularly you are trying to tell us its our "devolved " parliaments fault?
That is what independence is about .........full economic control of our country. That has been a key snp policy for its entire existence. Full fiscal autonomy , yet westmisnter refuses to grant that power under devolution.
Westmisnter merely wants to aportion blame , not power , as we have seen for years regarding eec/eu membership.
We will have to wait and see. If a scottish government runs an election on an indy card , and the majority of scots vote for it , and the scots government repeals the acts of union and treaty , then no international organisation is going to save the uk for you.
The uk is held together by a treaty called the treaty of union , of which scotland is one half the signatory. Scotland is not a province of england.
We dont need your countries permission to leave.
Sounds a lot like what Catalonia tried to do and no country in Europe supported them. Its nothing like what catalonia tried to do. Catalonia tried to do what kosovo did in 2008 when it made a UDI from serbia , and your uk government supported that along with many other european and world nations. Scotland situation is nothing like either , as the treaty of union proves. |
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Post by thomas on Feb 23, 2023 7:41:19 GMT
It isn't nonsense. Tomatoes are out of season here. Spain and Morocco have production shortages. Your explanation is more remoaner crap Thomas. vinny the whole world is laughing at brexiters excuses. As i said , it doesnt matter what either of us believe . What matters is the uk popualtions patience with the farce that is brexit. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 23, 2023 8:04:26 GMT
Are you suggesting the uk including norn ireland needs access to both the uk and the far bigger eu single markets? Perish the thought. That appears to me to be suggesting we overturn brexit . Not at all - simply pointing out that from the perspective of NI (and in fact Scotland) access to the UK Single Market is far more beneficial than access to the EU Single Market, as that is where most of their trading is carried out. Of course in both instances there are some in NI (and Scotland) who say that economic considerations are not the most important issue (as there were in Brexit) |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 23, 2023 8:28:02 GMT
Even when the UK was part of the EU, Scotland's sales to the EU were tiny, less than the pre rebate cost of membership.
And the idea that everything will be wonderful by leaving the UK and joining the EU is bollocks.
Cultist fantasy. Scotland sells over £50bn to England. £17.7b to the EU.
The UK has a tariff free quota free trade agreement with the EU.
And despite your partisan scorn you have provided no evidence to back up your argument.
We are independent.
Get over it.
Any problems with food shortages are due to production issues abroad.
Tomatoes are a summer crop here. It's presently winter.
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Post by bancroft on Feb 23, 2023 13:06:59 GMT
Sounds a lot like what Catalonia tried to do and no country in Europe supported them. Its nothing like what catalonia tried to do. Catalonia tried to do what kosovo did in 2008 when it made a UDI from serbia , and your uk government supported that along with many other european and world nations. Scotland situation is nothing like either , as the treaty of union proves. I recall Catalonia trying to have a vote without Spanish authorisation and its leaders getting arrested in the process. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 24, 2023 7:35:56 GMT
If you wrote this as the plot to a TV show it would be considered unlikely but here we are - We have ended up with an election whose only candidates are a man who says women can have a penis fighting two women who say they cant..  |
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Post by thomas on Feb 24, 2023 8:42:47 GMT
Are you suggesting the uk including norn ireland needs access to both the uk and the far bigger eu single markets? Perish the thought. That appears to me to be suggesting we overturn brexit . Not at all - simply pointing out that from the perspective of NI (and in fact Scotland) access to the UK Single Market is far more beneficial than access to the EU Single Market, as that is where most of their trading is carried out. Of course in both instances there are some in NI (and Scotland) who say that economic considerations are not the most important issue (as there were in Brexit) It doesnt take an economist to work out access to a market of circa 500 million , and one of the wealthiest if not "the " wealthiest trading bloc in the entire planet is of more benefit than access to a market of 55 million of a country that makes up a mere 40 % of these islands , whose economy is desperately floundering .
I keep repeating the same point over and over pacifico. The uk , whatever it once was , is no longer a world power in either military or economic terms. Its a mere dot on the global landscape , dwarfed by the superpowers like china and the USA , and cannot compete against the big trading blocs like the EU who hold all of the economic cards as we can see.
So if the people of scotland , northern ireland or even wales feel they need to be part of something bigger , then that is of course the powerfull EU , not the tiny UK . Thats the problem you have . You have been declining for the last century in every way shape and form , and whatever the reasons for union that potentially once existed with England no longer exist.
That is typified by the fact the EU and the americans have told you whats what in northern ireland , which has remained de facto as part of the EU , and you are powerless to do anything about it. Here we are , another day gone by , and northern ireland remains in the EU 7 years after the vote to leave , and 3 years after the rUK left.
The world can see who is boss when the once mighty uk cannot even stop part of its current constituent territory being "annexed" by a foreign power.
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Post by thomas on Feb 24, 2023 8:46:34 GMT
Its nothing like what catalonia tried to do. Catalonia tried to do what kosovo did in 2008 when it made a UDI from serbia , and your uk government supported that along with many other european and world nations. Scotland situation is nothing like either , as the treaty of union proves. I recall Catalonia trying to have a vote without Spanish authorisation and its leaders getting arrested in the process. So do i. Are you suggesting if the scottish people vote to repeal the treaty of union with england the anti democratic uk will do the same? Mind that happened in Ireland 100 years ago at the height of the british empire. Tell me bancroft how did that work out for you? |
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Post by thomas on Feb 24, 2023 8:47:38 GMT
Any problems with food shortages are due to production issues abroad. Tomatoes are a summer crop here. It's presently winter.  |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 24, 2023 9:54:38 GMT
Fake graphic includes Russian federation which definitely does have shortages of out of season fruit.
Sanctions are crippling Russia.
Try again liar.
Norway and Iceland are in the arctic, not big producers of tomatoes. Sweden which is in the EU is too far north same with Finland.
Fake graphic.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 24, 2023 12:16:13 GMT
Not at all - simply pointing out that from the perspective of NI (and in fact Scotland) access to the UK Single Market is far more beneficial than access to the EU Single Market, as that is where most of their trading is carried out. Of course in both instances there are some in NI (and Scotland) who say that economic considerations are not the most important issue (as there were in Brexit) It doesnt take an economist to work out access to a market of circa 500 million , and one of the wealthiest if not "the " wealthiest trading bloc in the entire planet is of more benefit than access to a market of 55 million of a country that makes up a mere 40 % of these islands , whose economy is desperately floundering . And it doesn't take a mathematician to work out that if you do more trade with with the smaller market you are better off with access to that smaller market. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 24, 2023 12:16:35 GMT
Any problems with food shortages are due to production issues abroad. Tomatoes are a summer crop here. It's presently winter. Fake news |
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Post by bancroft on Feb 24, 2023 13:49:53 GMT
I recall Catalonia trying to have a vote without Spanish authorisation and its leaders getting arrested in the process. So do i. Are you suggesting if the scottish people vote to repeal the treaty of union with england the anti democratic uk will do the same? Mind that happened in Ireland 100 years ago at the height of the british empire. Tell me bancroft how did that work out for you? No I don't think the UK would act that way yet do not know how they would react. I think SNP / Independence move need to get a date for a recognised referendum from the UK Supreme Court and if they refuse this or it is too far in the future then to escalate internationally. |
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Post by thomas on Feb 24, 2023 16:08:46 GMT
It doesnt take an economist to work out access to a market of circa 500 million , and one of the wealthiest if not "the " wealthiest trading bloc in the entire planet is of more benefit than access to a market of 55 million of a country that makes up a mere 40 % of these islands , whose economy is desperately floundering . And it doesn't take a mathematician to work out that if you do more trade with with the smaller market you are better off with access to that smaller market. sure pacifico. Thats how the british empire worked. Westmisnter forced the countries of the empire to trade with england , to englands benefit , in a sort of captive audience type market.
There are many examples of how former empire countries have broken free and become better off.
Ireland is a prime example. The republic is 10 % smaller than scotland , with a smaller popualtion , but its GDP is 33 % higher than scotlands. Scotland is in the uk internal market , ireland isnt , but is in the eu single market.
Irelands trade has doubled with the uk since it joined the old EEC in 1973 , but its eu trade has grown five times greater than its trade with the declining uk.
Independent irelands state pension is far greater than scotlands pitiful uk pension.
Contrast the independent rep[ublic with the british run part of the island of ireland. Its GDP per capita is three times greater than the british part , with the republic becoming far richer as an independent state than the uk in general and northern ireland in particular.
Commercially the union in general , and of course being taken out of the eu against the popular scottish vote , has been a calamity for scotland .
We need independence in europe like the republic of ireland . |
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