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Post by zanygame on Apr 9, 2023 16:04:27 GMT
That's OK, it's going to take decades for everyone to change from ICE to EV. Let's put it this way, either that's going to be allowed or it will become a disaster. Ice cars will need to be produced for the next three or four decades. This is how far reality diverges from the plan. Btw this assumes this alleged gigantic infrastructure project actually appears - i see not tangible sign of it In the last 12 months 57% of our electricity was produced by non fossil fuels. I'd say that was a pretty tangible sign of intent. I appreciate there might be slippage, Covid and then the current crises have effected our ability to pay for the changes we need. But there is no upper limit on climate change, earth does not mind having 200mph storms, 55 degree summers, year long droughts. Gaia is just fine with that, she cares no more if humans die out than she did dinosaurs. So if we finish late and only keep the average temperature down to a 2 degree rise, its still better than a 4 degree rise. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 9, 2023 16:11:08 GMT
The 30 or 40 years came from the decades needed to build this infrastructure and typical working life of an Ice car The other points you make are mistaken for various reasons. Battery technology is as unlikely to improve dramatically (ie an order of magnitude or greater) in the near future as ICE technology is. Both techs are somewhere near the point where further improvement is likely to be minor. You are comparing the availability of electric charge with the availability of a liquid - this is a bad comparison. For instance, if you have a liquid fuel it can be stored and dispensed when needed - the only limit being having the liquid and the pumps, pipes to dispense it. Electricity doesn't work like this ,a%20three%20times%20higher%20lifecycle. Alternatives to lithium will be along well before the 2035 deadline. I can't find the article at the moment, but I read a while back that Sodium batteries might become the battery at your charging station or attached to your home. That they will become the fast charging and secondary storage for the smaller lithium Ion battery in your vehicle. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 9, 2023 16:12:59 GMT
I haven't considered it, but I'm pretty sure they will have. So it depends on what technology they are using and how safe it is. All forms of Nuke energy generation has waste that has to be disposed of.....That's all we need to have dirty bombs used against us. As I say, I'm pretty sure they will have considered this aspect. |
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Post by jonksy on Apr 9, 2023 16:28:28 GMT
All forms of Nuke energy generation has waste that has to be disposed of.....That's all we need to have dirty bombs used against us. As I say, I'm pretty sure they will have considered this aspect. It doesn't lower the risks involved any. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 9, 2023 16:44:42 GMT
Let's put it this way, either that's going to be allowed or it will become a disaster. Ice cars will need to be produced for the next three or four decades. This is how far reality diverges from the plan. Btw this assumes this alleged gigantic infrastructure project actually appears - i see not tangible sign of it I think we all know that the 2035 deadline will be extended but I don't think you are getting 30-40 years. 5 or 10 years at the most. Cleaner and more efficient batteries are in the pipeline and it's that which will set the pace not the availability of charge points. The law of supply and demand will keep up with the need for charging. It's a lot easier to set up a chargepoint than build a petrol station and stations kept up with demand when people like you were saying that horses would be needed for another 40 years. Well it isn't actually. The Grid cannot support more charging stations in many areas without massive upgrading, already all significant development (of anything) in West London is on hold as the grid has reached maximum capacity. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 9, 2023 16:50:10 GMT
More infrastructure problems from EV's..
Shocking growth in weight of the average car..
EVs are much heavier than cars manufactured in the 1960s and 1970s, when many car parks were built.
For example, the current Tesla Model 3 weighs 1,672kgs, compared to the 768kg Ford Cortina Mark 1. The Audi E-tron weighs 2,351kg, compared to the 770kg Vauxhall Viva, while even the Nissan Leaf weighs 1,580kg.
Mr Simmons said: “We have done quite a few inspections of car parks over the last six months, and some prove that the buildings couldn’t withstand the new EV weights.”
While a possible collapse would be the worst-case scenario, Mr Whapples believes, he said he foresees some car parks introducing weight limits if there are concerns about their ability to hold EVs.
NCP, one of the country’s largest parking operators, said it was aware of the proposals and making adjustments to its newer sites. This includes placing most of its EV chargers on the bottom floor, while also making bays slightly wider to spread the load.
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Post by zanygame on Apr 9, 2023 19:03:03 GMT
As I say, I'm pretty sure they will have considered this aspect. It doesn't lower the risks involved any. If you don't object I'll trust the nuclear experts, though I appreciate your opinion. |
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Post by jonksy on Apr 9, 2023 19:30:16 GMT
It doesn't lower the risks involved any. If you don't object I'll trust the nuclear experts, though I appreciate your opinion. Its not a viable option and the cost alone outweighs any benefits. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 9, 2023 19:33:46 GMT
More infrastructure problems from EV's.. Shocking growth in weight of the average car.. EVs are much heavier than cars manufactured in the 1960s and 1970s, when many car parks were built.
For example, the current Tesla Model 3 weighs 1,672kgs, compared to the 768kg Ford Cortina Mark 1. The Audi E-tron weighs 2,351kg, compared to the 770kg Vauxhall Viva, while even the Nissan Leaf weighs 1,580kg.
Mr Simmons said: “We have done quite a few inspections of car parks over the last six months, and some prove that the buildings couldn’t withstand the new EV weights.”
While a possible collapse would be the worst-case scenario, Mr Whapples believes, he said he foresees some car parks introducing weight limits if there are concerns about their ability to hold EVs.
NCP, one of the country’s largest parking operators, said it was aware of the proposals and making adjustments to its newer sites. This includes placing most of its EV chargers on the bottom floor, while also making bays slightly wider to spread the load.A diesel range rover weighs 2,000kg. A Toyota Rav4 weighs 1930kg. Even a ford S max weighs 1947kg. Its a wonder no one has considered this already. |
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Post by Toreador on Apr 9, 2023 19:53:23 GMT
More infrastructure problems from EV's.. Shocking growth in weight of the average car.. EVs are much heavier than cars manufactured in the 1960s and 1970s, when many car parks were built.
For example, the current Tesla Model 3 weighs 1,672kgs, compared to the 768kg Ford Cortina Mark 1. The Audi E-tron weighs 2,351kg, compared to the 770kg Vauxhall Viva, while even the Nissan Leaf weighs 1,580kg.
Mr Simmons said: “We have done quite a few inspections of car parks over the last six months, and some prove that the buildings couldn’t withstand the new EV weights.”
While a possible collapse would be the worst-case scenario, Mr Whapples believes, he said he foresees some car parks introducing weight limits if there are concerns about their ability to hold EVs.
NCP, one of the country’s largest parking operators, said it was aware of the proposals and making adjustments to its newer sites. This includes placing most of its EV chargers on the bottom floor, while also making bays slightly wider to spread the load.A diesel range rover weighs 2,000kg. A Toyota Rav4 weighs 1930kg. Even a ford S max weighs 1947kg. Its a wonder no one has considered this already. You need to get to the average weight of diesel/petrol vehicles and the average weight of EVs before you can make a valid judgement. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 9, 2023 20:00:42 GMT
A diesel range rover weighs 2,000kg. A Toyota Rav4 weighs 1930kg. Even a ford S max weighs 1947kg. Its a wonder no one has considered this already. You need to get to the average weight of diesel/petrol vehicles and the average weight of EVs before you can make a valid judgement. I'd agree. But the tweet was comparing to cars from the 60's and 70's. Crazy. Like a multistorey carpark has not been checked since then. 🙄 |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 9, 2023 21:20:30 GMT
You need to get to the average weight of diesel/petrol vehicles and the average weight of EVs before you can make a valid judgement. I'd agree. But the tweet was comparing to cars from the 60's and 70's. Crazy. Like a multistorey carpark has not been checked since then. 🙄 you are suddenly an expert on the structural integrity of car parks? if NCP are suggesting that less cars will be needed to meet the structural limits of their cars parks I'm inclined to believe them rather than you tbh. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 9, 2023 21:34:41 GMT
Just to show the growth in weight - a Ford Cortina from the 1960's weighs 25% less than a current Fiat 500 petrol - which then weighs 25 less than a Fiat 500 electric.
And that is comparing a family car with a sub-mini car.
If you want to compare like with like a Mk1 VW Golf weighs less than half of an ID3 - so it's hardly surprising that car parks erected in the 60's and 70's are not designed for the weight of cars today.
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Post by zanygame on Apr 9, 2023 21:43:30 GMT
I'd agree. But the tweet was comparing to cars from the 60's and 70's. Crazy. Like a multistorey carpark has not been checked since then. 🙄 you are suddenly an expert on the structural integrity of car parks? if NCP are suggesting that less cars will be needed to meet the structural limits of their cars parks I'm inclined to believe them rather than you tbh. You don't need to be an expert to know a concrete carpark would need a structural check more than once in 60 years. I didn't say they wouldn't, I was laughing at the stupid comparison between a ford Cortina and a Tesla. Here let me get you started. www.cross-safety.org/uk/safety-information/cross-safety-report/structural-assessments-multi-storey-car-parks-224 |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 9, 2023 21:48:56 GMT
you are suddenly an expert on the structural integrity of car parks? if NCP are suggesting that less cars will be needed to meet the structural limits of their cars parks I'm inclined to believe them rather than you tbh. You don't need to be an expert to know a concrete carpark would need a structural check more than once in 60 years. I didn't say they wouldn't, I was laughing at the stupid comparison between a ford Cortina and a Tesla. Why is it stupid?. A car park erected in an era when most cars weighed the same as a Ford Cortina is obviously going to struggle when most cars weigh over twice as much. |
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