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Post by see2 on Jan 12, 2023 12:02:58 GMT
Have you ever checked out Momentum policies ? Honestly, no not in the sense that I ever sat down and read a momentum manifesto from start to finish, though I picked up quite a lot about them in my time in the party, obviously. I myself was never a member of momentum, though my local party included a number of comrades who were, a couple of whom remain personal friends of mine. Like me, both have resigned from the party some time ago. The momentum members I personally knew in my local area were all socialists similar to me. None of them were extremist revolutionary types. They believed in democracy, both inside the party and more widely in society. They believed in the possibility of democratic change for the better and as individuals were great local campaigners. They were all left wing obviously, but none of them were "far left" in any extremist sense. I am talking about the momentum members I knew personally in my own local party though so cannot speak from experience for the rest of the country. If you have any examples of extremist left wing policy agendas from momentum which you can post links to from reliable sources or from momentum themselves, feel free to share. I am all ears. Haven't come across any policies as such, but anyone who got a whiff of the following might have got the same view that I have on Momentum. "Early infiltration from the far left Members of the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) had raised concerns that parties on the far left of British politics, including the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition, Left Unity, the Socialist Workers Party (SWP), the Socialist Party and the Alliance for Workers' Liberty (AWL), might join Momentum to influence the Labour Party. Momentum was indeed mired by members of these groups and the disruption they caused in its organisation. An example was Jill Mountford, a longtime member of AWL who was accused of bullying with Momentum. The groups considered disbanding and supporting Momentum; in 2015, Left Unity members unsuccessfully proposed a merge with the organisation several times. The movement has been compared to the Militant tendency, a Trotskyist group which was expelled by Labour under Neil Kinnock during the 1980s. Labour MP Owen Smith accused Momentum of using Miliant-tendency tactics such as threatening to deselect Labour MPs, a concern echoed by former deputy Labour leader Roy Hattersley. Oliver Kamm of The Times wrote in October 2015, "Like the Trotskyists of a generation ago Momentum is an entrist organisation that's parasitic on the Labour host. This time, though, the far left has managed to gain control of the party structures and is intent on making life tough for Labour MPs". A Labour councillor in Liverpool in 2019 said about Momentum's presence in the city, "I think Momentum in Liverpool is a mask for Militant. There are decent Momentum people and then there are the others who have their own agenda". |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 12, 2023 12:29:11 GMT
When have you ever guessed correct? Just another of your usual trolling offerings. See the post you replied to and the puerile comment you have defended. Speaks for itself. "I guess not" was just me being polite  More trolling on your part. You really should get out more. I am sure there is a carer there that is prepared to take you out for Walkies. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 12, 2023 13:13:34 GMT
I honestly wonder why anyone bothers responding to see2's fatuous nonsense.
He's the only poster on my ignore list since his posts consist solely of peurile comments directed at anyone he disagrees with, while offering no valid counterpoint.
He's an absolute waste of screen space.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 14:29:38 GMT
Not "far left" but "way out to the left". Lol "In 1997, the political scientists David Butler and Dennis Kavanagh described Corbyn's political stance as "far-left". Which proves what exactly? It is just an opinion much like yours. They may well be people who have supported the Tories in the past, a bit like you really. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 14:44:35 GMT
Honestly, no not in the sense that I ever sat down and read a momentum manifesto from start to finish, though I picked up quite a lot about them in my time in the party, obviously. I myself was never a member of momentum, though my local party included a number of comrades who were, a couple of whom remain personal friends of mine. Like me, both have resigned from the party some time ago. The momentum members I personally knew in my local area were all socialists similar to me. None of them were extremist revolutionary types. They believed in democracy, both inside the party and more widely in society. They believed in the possibility of democratic change for the better and as individuals were great local campaigners. They were all left wing obviously, but none of them were "far left" in any extremist sense. I am talking about the momentum members I knew personally in my own local party though so cannot speak from experience for the rest of the country. If you have any examples of extremist left wing policy agendas from momentum which you can post links to from reliable sources or from momentum themselves, feel free to share. I am all ears. Haven't come across any policies as such, but anyone who got a whiff of the following might have got the same view that I have on Momentum. "Early infiltration from the far left Members of the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) had raised concerns that parties on the far left of British politics, including the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition, Left Unity, the Socialist Workers Party (SWP), the Socialist Party and the Alliance for Workers' Liberty (AWL), might join Momentum to influence the Labour Party. Momentum was indeed mired by members of these groups and the disruption they caused in its organisation. An example was Jill Mountford, a longtime member of AWL who was accused of bullying with Momentum. The groups considered disbanding and supporting Momentum; in 2015, Left Unity members unsuccessfully proposed a merge with the organisation several times. The movement has been compared to the Militant tendency, a Trotskyist group which was expelled by Labour under Neil Kinnock during the 1980s. Labour MP Owen Smith accused Momentum of using Miliant-tendency tactics such as threatening to deselect Labour MPs, a concern echoed by former deputy Labour leader Roy Hattersley. Oliver Kamm of The Times wrote in October 2015, "Like the Trotskyists of a generation ago Momentum is an entrist organisation that's parasitic on the Labour host. This time, though, the far left has managed to gain control of the party structures and is intent on making life tough for Labour MPs". A Labour councillor in Liverpool in 2019 said about Momentum's presence in the city, "I think Momentum in Liverpool is a mask for Militant. There are decent Momentum people and then there are the others who have their own agenda". So nothing at all in regards to momentum policies, just a load of whatever Blairite MPs happen to think of momentum, lol. This is a laughable response and most unconvincing. And to compare momentum with Militant is utterly risible. That some centrist MPs do so is not evidence of it being true, more evidence of their own biased agenda. As for fearing the possibility of infiltration from left wing groups, fear that something might happen is not proof of it happening, lol. And when it comes to bullying, locally one prominent left winger was chased around his car by an angry Blairite who then screamed in his face. Another was actually physically assaulted by a Blairite councillor. Both incidents were reported via the disciplinary protest. Of course, run by Blairites as it is no action was taken. Lower level bullying by Blairites was widespread. Their contempt was also actually seen in the way most of them couldn't be bothered to show up for party meetings but preferred plotting together in small groups. They only showed up in meetings in numbers when important votes were taking place to try and outvote the left, then contemptuously walked out in mid meeting as soon as the votes were finished. The left can teach those Blairite bastards nothing when it comes to bullying in my experience. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 15:00:48 GMT
I honestly wonder why anyone bothers responding to see2's fatuous nonsense.He's the only poster on my ignore list since his posts consist solely of peurile comments directed at anyone he disagrees with, while offering no valid counterpoint. He's an absolute waste of screen space. I am increasingly wondering why I bother myself. |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 12, 2023 15:02:37 GMT
I honestly wonder why anyone bothers responding to see2's fatuous nonsense. He's the only poster on my ignore list since his posts consist solely of peurile comments directed at anyone he disagrees with, while offering no valid counterpoint. He's an absolute waste of screen space. And a waste of frigging oxygen mate. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 15:02:57 GMT
See the post you replied to and the puerile comment you have defended. Speaks for itself. "I guess not" was just me being polite More trolling on your part. You really should get out more. I am sure there is a carer there that is prepared to take you out for Walkies. As if that response is anything but trolling, lol. Do you ever contribute anything intelligent and/or useful? |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 12, 2023 15:08:24 GMT
More trolling on your part. You really should get out more. I am sure there is a carer there that is prepared to take you out for Walkies. As if that response is anything but trolling, lol. Do you ever contribute anything intelligent and/or useful?Of course I do but it flies right over your head. But of course we all know that anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 15:46:59 GMT
As if that response is anything but trolling, lol. Do you ever contribute anything intelligent and/or useful?Of course I do but it flies right over your head. But of course we all know that anyway. Yet more trolling from our resident clown, Jokesy |
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Post by see2 on Jan 12, 2023 15:53:20 GMT
"In 1997, the political scientists David Butler and Dennis Kavanagh described Corbyn's political stance as "far-left". Which proves what exactly? It is just an opinion much like yours. They may well be people who have supported the Tories in the past, a bit like you really. I didn't expect it to make much difference to you with your fixed opinions. I just thought, err maybe, but no. You are stuck with nowhere to go. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 15:54:45 GMT
Which proves what exactly? It is just an opinion much like yours. They may well be people who have supported the Tories in the past, a bit like you really. I didn't expect it to make much difference to you with your fixed opinions. I just thought, err maybe, but no. You are stuck with nowhere to go. Well I certainly would never go to the Tories. How about you? |
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Post by see2 on Jan 12, 2023 16:10:01 GMT
Haven't come across any policies as such, but anyone who got a whiff of the following might have got the same view that I have on Momentum. "Early infiltration from the far left Members of the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) had raised concerns that parties on the far left of British politics, including the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition, Left Unity, the Socialist Workers Party (SWP), the Socialist Party and the Alliance for Workers' Liberty (AWL), might join Momentum to influence the Labour Party. Momentum was indeed mired by members of these groups and the disruption they caused in its organisation. An example was Jill Mountford, a longtime member of AWL who was accused of bullying with Momentum. The groups considered disbanding and supporting Momentum; in 2015, Left Unity members unsuccessfully proposed a merge with the organisation several times. The movement has been compared to the Militant tendency, a Trotskyist group which was expelled by Labour under Neil Kinnock during the 1980s. Labour MP Owen Smith accused Momentum of using Miliant-tendency tactics such as threatening to deselect Labour MPs, a concern echoed by former deputy Labour leader Roy Hattersley. Oliver Kamm of The Times wrote in October 2015, "Like the Trotskyists of a generation ago Momentum is an entrist organisation that's parasitic on the Labour host. This time, though, the far left has managed to gain control of the party structures and is intent on making life tough for Labour MPs". A Labour councillor in Liverpool in 2019 said about Momentum's presence in the city, "I think Momentum in Liverpool is a mask for Militant. There are decent Momentum people and then there are the others who have their own agenda". So nothing at all in regards to momentum policies, just a load of whatever Blairite MPs happen to think of momentum, lol. This is a laughable response and most unconvincing. And to compare momentum with Militant is utterly risible. That some centrist MPs do so is not evidence of it being true, more evidence of their own biased agenda. As for fearing the possibility of infiltration from left wing groups, fear that something might happen is not proof of it happening, lol. And when it comes to bullying, locally one prominent left winger was chased around his car by an angry Blairite who then screamed in his face. Another was actually physically assaulted by a Blairite councillor. Both incidents were reported via the disciplinary protest. Of course, run by Blairites as it is no action was taken. Lower level bullying by Blairites was widespread. Their contempt was also actually seen in the way most of them couldn't be bothered to show up for party meetings but preferred plotting together in small groups. They only showed up in meetings in numbers when important votes were taking place to try and outvote the left, then contemptuously walked out in mid meeting as soon as the votes were finished. The left can teach those Blairite bastards nothing when it comes to bullying in my experience. In your experience as you attempt to bully with --"those Blairite bastards"-- LOL Well those with enough sense who voted for NL showed the wankers on the left how to get into office and to stay in office longer than all the attempts by said wankers could manage between 1951 and 2020. Such a ridiculous record that only the subnormal wouldn't be able to understand that they are getting it wrong. Mind you such people do ignore / deny the good done by NL and do so because NL's successes makes the wankers on the left look so stupid. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 12, 2023 16:13:37 GMT
I didn't expect it to make much difference to you with your fixed opinions. I just thought, err maybe, but no. You are stuck with nowhere to go. Well I certainly would never go to the Tories. How about you? I will go where the policies are fair and responsible, why don't you? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 16:29:44 GMT
Well I certainly would never go to the Tories. How about you? I will go where the policies are fair and responsible, why don't you? I do, and it isn't the Tories, lol |
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